Beef stew to Phoenix as part of any deal for Ayton. Sign me up.
I’d take grant and Stewart for Ayton in a heart beat over paying Ayton the max.
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How does that avoid paying Ayton the max?
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Sly is a Suns fan.
What don’t you like about him? As a Pistons fan I don’t want to pay him the max either, but I seem to be in a minority.
I don’t dislike anything per say, one of the better centers in the league but…. He’s also not a superstar imo. I get guys get paid all the time who can’t carry your team to a title but I personally wouldn’t do it because that’s the goal.
I wouldn’t pay any center who’s not jokic, gobert, or embid the max. I might be missing someone , I’d have to look.
Ayton particularly on defense at the rim isn’t as menacing as I’d like to see and while decent down there, no one is that worried going to the rim as the mavs showed. Whether it’s paying the price or getting it kicked to the stands.
The motor thing is a bit overblown but at the same time he does go stretches where he’s not involved. Not totally his fault as someone needs to get him the ball but that’s also the point.
A lot of what he does is totally dependent on a guard setting him up. He hasn’t developed a 3 ball, his defense in all facets is solid but not elite, he isn’t an elite passer.
He’s basically a nice modern center who has the ability to finish, take you off the dribble sometimes ( out of a fake hand off from the elbow not like joker does) , hit mid range shots, has good footwork and play some d/ grab rebounds.
Nothing at all wrong with that but is that a guy youre giving a max contract too? Idk, he’ll get it from someone but unless his running partners are superstars that’s not a guy who’s leading you to title town. He’s got to be your number 3 imo and the guys above him have to be top 20 players.
Youre better off with someone cheaper who can replicate it but with more hustle and d and maybe slightly weaker offense but who can still hit a 15 footer and finish around the rim on lobs
Imo beef stew teamed up with another decent big at half the price and 15-20 million in hand to pay someone else is better.
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To me, there’s so much more that Ayton’s game that hasn’t been unlocked and he’s only 23. He can get a lot better. As you mentioned, he wasn’t asked to do things but it doesn’t mean he can’t do them. He has shown flashes of a perimeter game. He has progressively gotten better every season as a rim protector as evidenced by dFG% at the rim decreasing every season where he was a minus defender at Arizona.
I would try to dangle Grant and Olynyk to see if they can bite on a S&T.
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Thanks for that scouting report. I think I’m in the exact same spot. Wouldn’t pay the max to a center who does that. I’d rather keep Isaiah Stewart and look to compliment him.
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He sounds like a (Pistons-era) Drummond-level player. More skilled at scoring and can shoot a mid-range J. Fewer assists, steals, rebounds, and blocks. Less durable, as Andre hardly ever missed a game and Deandre has never played more than 71. And Ayton has two fewer all-star appearances.
How this equates to anything close to a max player is a head-scratcher.
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It’s funny when I see people say “You can’t draft Keegan Murray, he’s too old! He’s already 21!” and then also say, “Sign Ayton to a big deal. He’s only 24 and is going to get better!”
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You can think he isn’t max worthy, but he is a significantly better player than Drummond. Drummond put up empty stats on a bad team. Ayton put up 17 and 10 on the team with the best record in the NBA. Drummond basically had no offensive game whatsoever and despite the gaudy rebounding numbers, he wasn’t very good defensively either so it’s not like he was some great defensive center who just couldn’t play offense
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The comparison seems reasonable in the specific sense that it was only logical to give Drummond the max coming off his rookie deal, and it is no surprise at all that he didn’t play up to the value of that contract.
In this case though it’s hard to separate the mental/effort issues. I am not surprised that Drummond is as raw today as the day he was drafted, but there wasn’t this vibe as there is with Ayton and the Suns that the team doesn’t like him, or maybe is talking down his value in media or whatever. The Pistons loved Andre at that time. They didn’t listen to trade offers when his value was high.
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The “empty stats” line doesn’t ring true. It’s not like he was scoring all his numbers in the 4th quarter of blowouts.
One could even argue that he was putting up efficient points against more talented teams.
And, while Joel Embiid torched him often, he did the same to KAT.
Every time people bring up Ayton I always find it odd they completely disregard the fact that he was a major contributor to a team that went to the finals last year.
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Man, if those Damien Lillard-rumors were true…
Nobody is saying he’s a bad player. I think he’s a really good 3rd option on a good team.
Drummond could never be a really good third option on a good team. And what I mean by empty stats, is the numbers mean nothing. There are lots of players that put up counting stats on bad teams. Pistons best years with Drummond resulted in first round playoff sweeps and the majority of years were much worse than that.
I think the hope is Cade is a #1 guy, they can get a #2 in this draft, and then Ayton and Bey are solid 3-4 options on a good team. And then the team is suddenly working with a nice foundation. In an even better world, Pistons trade Grant for another first round pick and they add another piece for the future. The key is for Cade to be a legitimate top 15-20 player in the league and Pistons to find a #2 guy.
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It’s just a matter of whether you want to pay the max to a center who isn’t at the level of franchise cornerstone. Ayton is short of that.
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I’m not sure Detroit can get a #2 in this draft at 5. I think they can get a 3rd or 4th option in Murray or Mathurin, but I don’t see either of those guys as a #2 on a good team. I’m honestly not even sure Ivey would be a #2. He has the athleticism to get there, but he takes horrible shots in the paint, is not a great FT shooter, and the 3 point shot is suspect (and he takes bad shots there too). He’s elite in transition, but a lot of things need to be corrected for him to be a #2 option on a good offense, IMO.
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It’s true, but he also hasn’t had that level of success since then - largely because their run to the finals was predicated on beasting teams that didn’t have a center to even vaguely stand up to him (see: Nick Batum at C). Like I can say “well Jae Crowder started for a finalist!”, but I don’t think anyone is going to act like he’s irreplaceable (here we are discussing Grant is a very feasible replacement/likely upgrade).
Ayton is a good player. He is not an all-star. The only team, in my opinion, for whom giving him the max makes sense is Phoenix, merely because they have literally no means of replacing him with a vaguely equivalent player.
He shot 75% from FTs? That’s not bad at all, nor is it indicative of him not developing a shot.
Are you sure about this? Phoenix played the best center in the world in Jokic in the play offs last year. Jokic even said Ayton was the toughest defensive opponent he’s faced alongside Gobert.
Ayton was significantly more important than Jae Crowder.
I’m against paying anyone the max to come to Detroit at the time being. I am a hard tankie (lol), I ‘trust the process’. But Ayton is about the best FA signing Detroit can get.
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