Duke is not morally above the others but they are smarter than some. The Bagley’s got an AAU team starts dad could get paid off within the rules. I’d be interested in knowing how the others have been paid.
Zion’s stepdad got the same thing from adidas. Josh Jackson’ s mom got Under Armour money for their AAU team. Happens ALL the time.
I accept that some people don’t see it the same way, but as with some of the ugly toward women that has gone down at MSU, I no longer gaze respectfully upon coaches and schools that have participated in such activity. The fact that others do it, or that, in some way, the time has come for players to be better compensated–in short, that it’s a shifting moral landscape–doesn’t make stuff like this any more palatable to me. Duke already boasted numerous advantages that 100s of other schools possess. The next time anyone talks about Coach K as a Hall of Famer or genuflects before him, expect raspberries from me!
Do you have other examples to show “all the time” and not involving Duke or Kansas? Or not in the last few years? I Know Bagley is not the only one but this is a relatively new way to pass money.
You did though miss the larger point, that Duke and UK are more innovative in their cheating then some who got caught.
So I’d like to know how the players got the 200K.
The AAU route is quite common. Romeo Langford, for example. It is essentially legal.
I don’t care if kids get paid. I do have an issue with coaches who sell themselves as moral paragons then flaunt the rules. Coach K can kick bricks.
They didn’t. Per a close friend of mine who spent 40 years as a DI hoops coach (assistant and head, Power 5 and mid-major), in most cases, the kids get a small part of money which exchanges hands if, indeed, they get any part at all. This is the true tragedy of the current system–the rules are being violated, not for the benefit of those with the special talents whom everyone covets, but rather for the benefit of parents or AAU coaches or “handlers” or high school coaches or friends or others who, for lack of a better term, pimp out kids for profit. Whatever side you fall on in the “amateurism” vs. “shamaterism” debate, there is no principled justification for what is actually happening.
I genuinely believe the big time coaches, like K, Pitino, Saban, Meyer, maybe Self and Cal(though not as convinced for them), don’t know that their players and/or their handlers are getting paid. Because if someone like coack k knows, then he’s borderline psychopathic in the way he would have lied during his amateurism spiels.
I think their assistants and other dealers keep them “clean”
He did blatantly lie about the Dillon Brooks thing, so…
They aren’t dumb, they absolutely know. Honestly I have more respect for someone like Calipari who is essentially on the level about the transaction - “come here, I’ll grt you in the NBA in a year” - than Coach K and his speeches (and credit card commercials) about building men.
The issue with the player payment Black Market is the army of undeserving people who get rich instead. It inflated salaries of coaches, admins, and these black market “agents” and fixers and AAU coaches. If you bring it to light, the whole gang of barnacles gets scraped.
The idea that someone like Nick Saban doesn’t know what’s going on in his own program gave me a good laugh. These guys are all control freaks. They use others to do the dirty work because that’s what you do when you get up high enough. They may not know about every $100 handshake from a booster, but they do know who’s in the practice of giving them. I can’t even imagine their not being aware that an assistant is paying to get players. I’d bet most even know the exact amounts involved.
its Not necessary information. They need plausible deniability. There’s no way Saban knows specific amounts. It’s not his program spending the money, and it’s not people in his program getting the money. He’s focused on what he needs to be focused on. I shouldn’t say there’s no way he has that info, but I’d be shocked and imo it’s not the most logical conclusion. It’s also exactly how you get caught. See LSU, Arizona.
If someone like Dabo knows who, how much, and in what way a recruit is getting paid, he’s much more than a cheater. Much worse. He’s a compulsive liar and everything he has said for the last several years loses any meaning whatsoever.
Arguing that they preserve plausible deniability seems like the exact opposite of not knowing.
They know, they just stay clear of the specifics.
It’s not Saban’s money, but in a way it is. There’s a limited supply, otherwise Bama would get every player they want who could be bought. Saban could just tell a staffer to give people whatever it takes to get them. Same as with Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, etc.
Somehow has to decide how to employ that money. How much is recruit x worth vs recruit z? There needs to be some coordination. If a big booster can be counted on for one player a year, who do you ask him to help with? A recruit that can be bought cheaply? Probably not the best idea. A guy that’s going to ask too much? That might not work either. You have to know your boosters, what they will and won’t do, where they operate, what kind of recognition they seek, etc. Entrusting all of that to an assistant would be a big deal. It’s not something I see happening.
If there’s a recruit Saban really, really wants, who do you think decides whether to stop recruiting him because his asking price is too high? Let’s say a recruit Saban wants commits elsewhere. Do we think his assistant can tell him it’s because they wouldn’t match the other school’s offer without Saban knowing the numbers involved?
It’s more of an implausible deniability. I would hope most see right through it. Rather, coaches make it harder to prove they were involved. They give the employers and the NCAA cover to let them skate.
If they’re smart, they don’t handle payments directly. Don’t discuss dollar amounts with handlers. Some aren’t too smart about that. But I don’t believe any are so dumb as to be out of the loop. If they cheat, it’s very important to know what’s going on. Assistants could do something stupid that gets you in trouble. Paying too much just might be one of those things. Taking money from the wrong people is another.
Correct. I think they are all compulsive liars
They know. Come on.
Exactly. And I bet they know the going rate for five star talent.
In this vein, what Marvin Bagley did is extremely interesting - his dad ran a Nike sponsored EYBL team which pulled him out of bankruptcy. He went to a Nike affiliated school, with a ton of rumbling that the Nike pulled those strings.
Then the second he can make his own money he jumps ship to Puma.
So which coaches know then? It’s probably fair to guess that players at any program could be getting something.