College Basketball 2023-24 Discussion

I think most of this stuff is still pretty easy to infer from looking at a KenPom team page. Although I guess it’s a good reminder what “usage” literally means on KP vs. what I think colloquially people understand and use it to mean.

Like, there’s no universe where I’m calling X a low usage player looking at a KP team page even if his USG% isn’t 25+%

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But he had a usage rate in the teens in 2018 and 2019. He had a low usage rate. That’s what usage rate is.

I mean not to go all Tense Present on you, but no it isn’t. If people use it to mean “the guy with the ball in his hands” it isn’t particularly crucial that KenPom’s definition only sort of proxies for that. If you want to dispute that people largely do not use it like that, by all means, I’m listening. But when Nate Duncan says “high usage guy” on his podcast I don’t think he is excluding guys with only OK shot + to + foul drawn %s but high assist rates.

They shouldn’t. That’s not what it means. I am not aware of people who understand the stat using it that way.

The term “usage rate” was literally coined by this stat (which isn’t a KenPom definition).

It’s not like there used to be something called usage rate and then someone came up with a different term.

It means something completely different than whether you have the ball in your hands. There’s no reason for it to be used interchangeably and there are way better ways to measure whether players have the ball in their hands… player tracking data in the NBA (and soon college) tells you things like dribbles, how much you actually have the ball, etc. and simple play type data tells you whether you are taking created shots (PNRs, ISOs, DHOs, etc.) or off-ball shots (spot ups, cuts, off screens, etc.).

Like I said, if you think people don’t use it the way I use it, fine enough. But it’s my understanding they do and like I said, I rarely hear it used to exclude assist rate. There are a lot of ways to define usage because people understand it to be a proxy for something they’re watching and they only have box score stats to measure it.

kind of tautological, right?

It’s not about excluding the assist rate or whatever; it’s just that “usage rate” is a stat. It means how many possessions you use, I think everyone grasps that.

The idea that it means something about being an on-ball player is something different.

It shouldn’t be used to describe on-ball or off-ball stuff. That’s just not something that I would think someone would use usage rate to describe.

Just simply having the ball (ball dominant) is different than using possessions (high usage).

Of course, it can be aligned. Just like you could just use PPG instead of usage and it would basically be the same thing.

People use rebound margin to describe how well a team is rebounding even though ti doesn’t measure that.

I just don’t think that someone using a stat incorrectly to explain something means it is right!

I hadn’t thought about it but on consideration I think it makes perfect sense that Dylan is firmly Team Prescriptivist

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Otz back to the Q4 buy game blowout well :rofl:

https://x.com/CycloneMBB/status/1795832504777326972

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SMH only agreed to play Omaha after Fidler left

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That is a shameful OOC. Literally one home game of consequence!

What is it about Iowa State coaches and scheduling the most pathetic non-con slates?

neither B1G nor portal but whatever

https://x.com/JonRothstein/status/1795903473768087779

Clemson under Brownell: Always just good enough, but never great!

A sixth year senior who shoots 50% on twos and 31% on threes feels perfect for that!

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Karaban returning.

“uh oh” - Penny Hardaway

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1795909604515131783

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https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1795923822534615356

cc @DMB43

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I think Ajay Mitchell is staying in the draft

dont lose faith

https://x.com/jeffborzello/status/1795930823910203453?s=46&t=xsoD7F1QL4iGG_8kXTdpkw

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