Would like to agree in principle, but we have courted the culture of being a “guard, wing” factory willingly over the last few years, and it is gonna be exploited on the recruiting trail. As talented as Mitch was, he was used sparingly until his tourney breakout. A very small sample size to reference, IMO. Bigs wanna go where they are showcased, and it is presently hard to make that case for our philosophy as it exists.
UMHoopsFan, don’t kid yourself. John Beilein’s offense is not Big Guy Friendly. It’s the simple truth. That’s not a knock on JB either. His philosophy works.
I stated after I saw Caleb play over the weekend that I question how he would fit in, in Michigan’s offense. He’s a back to the basket big. We are not a back to the basket team.
If I had to pick who I would rather not see at State it would probably be Brunson over Swanigan. A lot of talented kids have went to MSU and been laid to waste after beaten into submission about playing D how Tom wants it to be played. He has a hell of a program, but after 3 seasons of watching Beilein’s program in pretty much full swing and wondering how in the world we are going to compete down low against X team or Y team and only to see Michigan win, or have a shot to win, I am not going to doubt the program, and how he does things. Not saying anyone here is, but Beilein has a lot of rope to do things as he sees fit as far as I am concerned.
His teams have willing defenders and willing rebounders, they just haven’t stayed in the program long enough to see it all work as a Junior/Senior laden team to compete strength wise against some veteran teams. Considering the player development that goes on around here, we may never see it either.
Well, first we have to define what “big-guy friendly” means. Pittsnogle scored 3pts more per game for JB than Payne ever did for Izzo, just as an example. If you’re a big that can shoot, I’m not sure there’s a better place to go. And I think we’ll see that more with Donnal starting this year.
As for a “back-to-the-basket” team, UM certainly hasn’t emphasized it, and until it does there will be understandable skepticism. Again, I think UM’s personnel has largely dictated some of this, both with how good our guards/wings have been and how lacking in post-up ability our bigs have been. JB has shown a lot of flexibility and an ability to adapt to personnel. DeShawn Sims got a ton of touches in the high post/elbow when he was here because that was one of our most efficient offensive sets with that personnel.
And, in theory, an offense with four shooters on the floor and movement can get the big in advantageous spots and is perfect for a big – lots of spacing, harder to double. I think we’ll see some different looks on offense even with Donnal and Doyle, and we’d really see something different if we had a top level 5. But until we see, it’ll be hard to know, and it may be tough for JB to get a guy like that right now. It was no coincidence that UM was getting a ton of mentions from bigs after the 2013 tourney, and McGary’s absence this year probably set our bigs recruiting back some. It makes sense why we’d be much more popular at the moment with guards and wings than centers.
I want a 6’10"+ shot blocker at center that’s somewhat mobile. Swanigan is a load and I sure hope we don’t ever have to defend against him, but I’d rather have other qualities in our bigs than what he provides.
I want a 6'10"+ shot blocker at center that's somewhat mobile. Swanigan is a load and I sure hope we don't ever have to defend against him, but I'd rather have other qualities in our bigs than what he provides.
Deyonta Davis.
I’ve gotta say a Brunson/Swanigan/Davis class would be absolutely perfect for MSU. Davis is the aerial threat, the shot blocker and the leaper. He needs weight, but he has all sorts of potential. Swanigan plays with him perfectly because he’s so big and strong and can move people. Think Nix/Payne and how well they complemented each other.
Brunson is a terrific player and he would be the sort of PG that Izzo likes to ride, combined with prototypical front court. Would be a huge bounce back class for MSU.
Brunson is as hard nosed as they come for a point guard.
I definitely don’t want that kid at MSU. He was the best PG I saw over the weekend. It was a pleasure to watch him and Prince Ali go at it.
1 of Gil-Caesar, Davis, Coleman or Turner is also a strong possibility.
If Swanigan goes elsewhere, Ellenson is still in play.
Also in great shape with Winston, Bridges and Bowen.
Personally, I think MSU staying in top form is good for UM.
It’s not so much what Izzo is landing as long as we are matching him or getting good fits for what JB runs in return.
Oops! I thought this was a Wolverine board, Let me get out of here.
Agree with chezaroo and mpbear14…The profile of our program that Beilien has created is of a very heavily guard-oriented offense that does not incorporate bigs well. In all the time he has been here, Beilein has only gone hard after one elite big, and other than 5 games in last year’s tournament, no big man has ever been more this a role player for Beilein’s teams here.
Not that his style hasn’t worked, but it makes it very hard now to get talented big men to even take a serious look at us, let alone commit, because they know they will probably not be featured in a Beilein offense. That leaves us hoping that under-the-radar guys like Doyle (well, Doyle, actually…we don’t really have any other guys like him) can develop into at least serviceable rebounder and inside defenders, with a little scoring.
I’ll tell you what, if Michigan lands Esa, MSU can land whoever they want. Esa has a frame to become a big boy, and there isn’t a position on the floor he can’t play.
Esa in Michigan’s system will have a greater impact than Caleb in MSU’s system.
Agree with chezaroo and mpbear14...The profile of our program that Beilien has created is of a very heavily guard-oriented offense that does not incorporate bigs well. In all the time he has been here, Beilein has only gone hard after one elite big, and other than 5 games in last year's tournament, no big man has ever been more this a role player for Beilein's teams here.Not that his style hasn’t worked, but it makes it very hard now to get talented big men to even take a serious look at us, let alone commit, because they know they will probably not be featured in a Beilein offense. That leaves us hoping that under-the-radar guys like Doyle (well, Doyle, actually…we don’t really have any other guys like him) can develop into at least serviceable rebounder and inside defenders, with a little scoring.
You can’t really say that after Mitch’s run in the tournament last season. He was utilized plenty, and not just high ball screen and roll. He hit a number of face up mid range shots. No, we haven’t just dumped into the low post, but we lsay to out players’ strengths. If we had a kid who could post up, we’d utilize it. Before DMo and JMo, we never ran a high ball screen. People said we were just a team that jacked up threes. We can play inside out if we have the horses to do it. No question.
Sane1, I think the bigger concern is how do you land those guys when JB has never showcased it?
Mcgary squared up and hit some mid range shots for a 5 game stretch, but that’s the extent of our low post history when it’s not a pick and roll or scrapping for put backs.
I don’t doubt for a second, if JB landed a guy like Caleb that he would tweak his offense to get him involved, the problem is, he has no film to show Caleb where these other big name coaches have archives of it.
When we are recruiting a big that can also shoot 3’s the exact opposite is true. JB has archives of how that type of player will be used. In my opinion, recruits want to see examples first hand how they will be used. They want to sit there and think “I can do that.” “That’s my game” etc. That’s what sticks in their mind.
You better believe JB is showing clips of Trey Burke when a guy like Brunson visits. I’ll tell you what though, Caleb has a lot of Mitch McGary in his game. Motor is through the roof.
Sane1, I think the bigger concern is how do you land those guys when JB has never showcased it?
This is the real issue, in my view. And Mitch’s injury probably slowed down big recruiting, because otherwise we’d have a ton more clips and an all-whatever, lottery big to show off.
The answer comes in a few parts. For now you show clips of Mitch and DeShawn Sims (who went for 17-8 and 16-7). You look for a certain fit – like how we got Mitch in the first place. And you start with guys like Donnal and Doyle, who both have potential for better low-post offense than JMo or Jon.
But, for the reasons mentioned, it wouldn’t surprise me if we did better recruiting guards and wings than centers for now, even if I think the latter would do very well here.
Sane1, I think the bigger concern is how do you land those guys when JB has never showcased it?
How did we land McGary?
Sane1, I think the bigger concern is how do you land those guys when JB has never showcased it?How did we land McGary?
GR3s best friend, and AAU teammate.
How did we land McGary?
Simple, GRIII
Sane1, I think the bigger concern is how do you land those guys when JB has never showcased it?How did we land McGary?
GR3s best friend, and AAU teammate.
So we can land 'em without showcasing? Sounds like it can be done.
…I thought we’d have a good shot at Zimmerman. Hopefully someone pops up in 2016. Maybe Funderburke will grow and be one of those bigs we can land.