2014 Michigan seems shockingly low on that list. The idea that seven of MSU’s teams in the last decade were better than Stauskas/GRIII/Levert/Walton/Irvin/Morgan seems…off. That team went 15-3 in conference play, better than 9 of MSU’s 10 finishes this decade.
I’m a big KenPom guy, but that’s just surprising
Crappy non-conference probably hurts that 2014 team a bit.
That chart does back up my opinion that the 2019 will always be under appreciated for how good of a team it actually was. Three losses to MSU will do that but that team was a couple shots and a different draw away from being remembered completely differently.
A good example, at least to me, of why NCAA success isn’t everything. A couple shots and a good draw changes the whole tournament.
Also that 23-24 range of teams are all very close if you look at the raw number.
Right. I read the Kenpom explanation, but do you post it in defense of Izzo? It looks like a defense of Izzo to me. I think we as M fans have perhaps maybe a skewed perception of him. We can spot the overrated Izzo teams months earlier than most here, but the guy still gets results even in underperforming years.
I could be wrong, but I’m fairly certain I’ve heard Pomeroy say you can’t necessarily just use AdjEm between seasons to compare which teams were better.
I would put 2019 MSU over 2018 Michigan for sure.
I could be wrong too but I think the new system is actually better for comparing. Not positive.
I think '19 would have left a sour taste for me unless Final Four. 0-3 vs MSU, especially with sizeable leads late in the second half and conference titles on the line. Awful. Z gets his legacy lit on fire by Poole.
I pulled the data because I was genuinely curious. Not in defense of anyone. It did make me want to run the numbers across the whole league, though.
If I had a vote for coach of the decade I would choose Izzo though.
The Poole/Z thing was weird. Bummer because I wish Poole was remembered a lot more fondly around here, he was one of my favorites. The non-conference beat downs were memorable but that team’s pieces were all very enjoyable on their own - Iggy’s brash confidence, Poole’s playful swagger, X’s toughness, CM’s smoothness, Teske’s sleepiness turned bow and arrow three point celebrations.
To go from the high of the highs to the sequence of events that followed with MSU losses, not being able to score in the Sweet 16, Poole & Iggy going pro and JB leaving abruptly was just such a tough swing.
If I had a vote for coach of the decade I would choose Izzo though.
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Might as well give us a Moving Screen with the first, second and third All-Coach teams.
1st team: Izzo, JB, Matta, Painter, Ryan
2nd team: Crean, McCaffery, Turgeon, Pat Chambers, Greg Gard
3rd team: Tim Miles, Chris Holtmann, Juwan, Archie Miller, Tubby Smith
NW fans: BuT hOw iS ChRiS ColLiNs NoT oN tHe LiSt!
Haha how did Chambers sneak onto the second team?
The fact that he has somehow avoided termination for an entire decade is arguably a more impressive feat than anything the 3rd group has won in their short spans as semi-successful coaches, LOL
To each their own. I think 2018 MSU with Bridges was more talented than 2019 MSU, and we beat the 2018 squad twice.
You can’t really argue with Izzo’s overall success other than the fact that he hasn’t won more titles. But I’m still amazed that in 2020 he can humiliate and berate his players on national TV repeatedly and be known as a ‘good guy’ or run a ‘family program’.
I’m not saying that coaches should hand everyone a lollipop and pat them on the back - tough love is an important part of coaching. But Izzo is one of the most outwardly negative coaches to his players and yet neither his reputation or his ability to recruit and retain talent seems at all affected by it. Amazing.
(And that’s not even touching on any potential off-court scandals with his players and what role he or MSU played in them.)
Right or wrong, people inside the family look at that very differently than people outside of the family.
Oh, I get that…just still amazes me. Lots of Bobby Knight’s players loved him. Nick Saban is the opposite of warm and fuzzy and it clearly doesn’t affect him.
I’m just surprised that in 2020 that behavior wouldn’t at least have SOME negative consequences - transfers, recruiting, player sharing their opinion to the media, etc.
Izzo is just a fascinating story. He has been wildly successful despite not recruiting at an elite level. You could even argue that besides Draymond there isn’t a single player that Izzo has improved their draft stock in their time at MSU. He’s clearly got this weird Stockholm Syndrome thing where his players love him even if he is really hard on them. And yet year after year it continues to work. I can’t stand him and wouldn’t want my kid to play for him…but you have to tip your cap.
Valentine’s a pretty major Izzo success story IMO. I never expected that kid to get drafted, let alone in the lottery after winning NPOY.
Him, Draymond and now likely Tillman are his three big development wins, he’s just really good at getting 3-4 years out of those guys in college too
Cassius Winston, Gary Harris, Bryn Forbes, Adreian Payne, Matt Costello, Kenny Goins all seem like pretty good development stories too, right?
I had to google this because I literally didn’t believe you. Man, not only does he go his first 8 years without an NCAA tourney appearance, he only makes ONE NIT appearance in that time frame (granted they did win the NIT in that appearance so props for that I guess?). Then in year 9 they essentially make it but Covid cancels the thing. What a bummer for that guy.
I wonder if there’s any other example in the 21st century of a coach at a power 5 school who survived 8 years with no NCAA appearances and only 1 NIT appearance. Pretty incredible.
Weren’t Payne and Harris both 5 stars? Usually don’t talk about development when it comes to guys like that. Goins, Costello, and Forbes for sure. Cassius is probably somewhere in the middle.