Big Ten Offseason Thread


Walton average 8ppg 3assists and 3rebs his freshman year for a team that went to the elite 8. To me numbers don’t tell all as you have usage and other variables such as defense. Lyles may be higher but at this stage I like the veteran that we have.


The fact that he was only a freshman when he put up those numbers is impressive, and means that he may go on to be one of the best PGs in the B1G, with improvement. But the 4 assists looses its luster when you see he averaged 3 turnovers, for a 1.4 A/TO ratio. And yeah, he can take less or make more 3s, but 25% is pretty atrocious. And while he attempted a healthy number of FTs, he only shot 71%, which is not great considering he is the team’s primary ball handler.


I’m writing this based on the assumption that Vic Law won’t be in their top 15 players…I still think that he is poised for a big career at NU and someone that deserves some mention on this list.


5 spots left, Thomas Bryant, Melo Trimble, Peter Jok, Nigel Hayes, JaQuan Lyle and Ethan Happ still out there. I would have had all 6 in my top 15.


Id guess you got all of those right, with Lyle being left out


Rahkman is better than huerter or uhl. Also he’s definetly top 25 to whoever said he wasn’t. He will show everybody what’s up this year. I just hope coach and the team keep recognizing him and go to him more and more. Whether you think he’s the best player on the team is one thing but if you think about it he was the most valuable/ irreplaceable after levert went down. Without him there was literally no threat at driving. He was the main reason we made the tourney last year imo. Other wise it was passing back and forth till someone took a bad three.


As a fan I hope you’re correct about MAAR, but in my opinion he’s solid 3rd option for a good team.

The fan in me wants to believe in MAAR; the pragmatist says look around the league and you see a lot of players with his skill/production.

Even on Michigan’s roster, end of the day, what’s the difference in total contribution between MAAR and Robinson? MAAR is a much better defender, but teams game-plan to stop Robinson on offense; no one is game-planning to defend MAAR.


I disagree. I like Duncan but their values aren’t even in the same stratosphere. I really am surprised how down a lot of people are on maar. I thought there was little doubt he was our all around best player late and was the number one factor we made the tourney.

Without his ability to get his own shot and to get to the rim we were in a world of trouble late. Other wise it was windshield washer offense followed by a bad deep two or three. I don’t think teams are game planning for Duncan per say. Saying don’t leave him open beyond the arc and game planning are a bit different. Plus he was a non factor for a large portion of big ten play. I mean it started to look like kam or Aubrey were better choices for his minutes.

I think we saw late what coach b was seeing too, which was get the ball to maar a lot more. He started getting more and more touches late and Id he surprised to see if he wasn’t pretty much on equal footing with Walton and Irvin this year in touches.

He also plays good d, has that fight the others don’t, that hustle, and will to win and compete. I’m hoping Walton and Irvin can get some consistency again but either way I think attacking this thing as a three headed monster will be our best strategy. Honestly all of them getting around ten looks or more is probably ideal along with Wagner and Duncan.

I think we’re very solid at every spot so playing the mismatch or spreading the wealth could be our strength and advantage this year. No weak link.


There was never any moment all year where Robinson was in danger of losing minutes to Dawkins or Kam. Robinson is more important to this team than MAAR if it’s going to reach its potential.


I don’t think anyone is down on him. They’re just realistic and saying he’s a solid supporting player on a good team.

[quote=“slyboogie2, post:88, topic:1957”]Without his ability to get his own shot and to get to the rim we were in a world of trouble late.

And without Duncan’s ability to light it up from deep we have what, one plus shooter in the starting lineup? That’s a death trap for Beilein’s system.

[quote=“slyboogie2, post:88, topic:1957”]I don’t think teams are game planning for Duncan per say. Saying don’t leave him open beyond the arc and game planning are a bit different.

I mean you could say the same thing about anyone. By that logic teams don’t “game plan” for Thomas Bryant or Issac Hass. “Don’t let them get inside, it’s that easy!” It’s not as simple as you make it out to be. I think more preparation would go into stopping Robinson rather than MAAR. We run several different plays to get Duncan open that they have to look over but MAAR’s scoring is almost exclusively ISO.

[quote=“slyboogie2, post:88, topic:1957”]has that fight the others don’t, that hustle, and will to win and compete.
I personally think it’s ridiculous to say Walton and Irvin don’t fight, compete, or have the will to win. Some show it in different ways. Trey Burke oozed all of those things but he rarely showed any emotion on the court.

This is what I have the biggest issue with. Take away Walton or Irvin and you could say the exact same thing. Of course if you lose a starter it would be harder to make the tourney. That doesn’t make that starter the best guy on the team. If Walton goes out Dakich plays 20 minutes a game. Irvin or Robinson goes out and Dawkins is letting unskilled wings blow past him on defense for 35 minutes a game. The biggest thing is that Irvin and Walton both have solid assist rates whereas MAAR doesn’t create offense for others at a very good rate. You could make the exact same argument for any other starter.


I don’t think maar is asked to do that. He’s asked to go score and finish at the rim as he was the only guy doing so with any effectiveness. I’m not gonna go point for point countering your counters although I could. It’s clear you along with others don’t view what maar did or is in the same light as I do. We will see over the next two years who’s right on that one.


I felt like Bronson should have been ranked higher. Honestly I think Justin Jackson could be better than huerter. Guy always looked like a beast when I watched him.


Driving to the lane is generally the easiest way to get assists. The fact that he is effective getting there and still doesn’t get many makes my point even more valid. Creating for others isn’t something a coach has to ask you to do. If you can do it then you will. There’d be no reason for Beilein to say “Oh we don’t need you getting assists so don’t do it.”


I am pretty sure that my views align closer with Sly. Last year, MAAR, Irvin and Walton were pretty equal in terms of value in my mind. One of those three might rise above the others but it was pretty close last year. I would rank their value in big ten play as 1) Walton, 2) MAAR, 3) Irvin (gap) 4) Robinson. Irvin gets a pass because of his back surgery. Comparing Robinson’s value to MAAR’s (last season) is no contest in my mind. Robinson did not maintain his otherworldly shooting as the season went on against good competition and he plays inferior defense. MAAR was more valuable, in my opinion. I am not sure why people want to hold onto the idea that MAAR is not one of the most valuable players on the team–I think even Beilein was slow to coming around to the idea but it became pretty obvious toward the end of last season and I was happy that MAAR was included in the top 25 preseason list (only a few places below Irvin and Walton) put out by Dylan and Inside the Hall.


On the other hand, Walton tends to pick up quite a few of the easy assists of the kick out variety because he drives half heartedly with no real intention to take it to the hole. Why would Walton drive half heartedly and settle for an assist? Because he is not effective, like MAAR is, at taking it to the hole and actually scoring. MAAR also was not the beneficiary of a lot of ball screens…Also, it seems like a good chunk of MAAR’s shots were the result of him receiving the ball with time ticking down.


Here’s a worthwhile read on MAAR from mgoblog


I disagree with this. I don’t think Walton gets quite a few of those, and in fact I’d say he gets very few compared to the 2 point guards before him in Trey and Darius. I’d also say a big reason they had much higher assist rates was because they were scoring threats at the rim.


I think a lot of people are forgetting what MAAR did for the team down the stretch. Many times late in the year they gave him the ball and got out of the way. If I was picking a team from the returnees, he would be my 1st pick!


I agree that point guards who are a scoring threat get more assist opportunities because they are drawing multiple defenders out of position. But, in terms of comparing Walton’s assist rate to MAAR’s assist rate: Are you saying that MAAR should be getting more assists because he is good at attacking the rim like Trey? Or, are you saying that we should be impressed that Walton is getting as many assists as he does because he is not good at attacking the rim like Trey? I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.


I think that post from mgoblog fairly closely resembles my feeling on MAAR. I like his play. He’s come from lightly regarded to key member of the team. He provides elements the team lacks in other areas. I want to root for him.

But this sums it up best
“In fact, most of the names that Rahk’s statistical profile spits out are random swingmen…”

We can all point to a statistical metric here or there or a stretch of games/plays where MAAR flashed more, but the overall picture points to him being a nice supporting piece on a good team. And that’s not a knock or a dig at MAAR; that’s a level of accomplishment on par for what you’d expect from a high-3*/low-4* prep prospect, which is solid production.