Big Ten Discussion


#1601

Sparty physicality just too much. Their overall team rim protection is an impressive variable going forward.


#1602

Although UNC’s offense was out of whack, UNC still shot very poorly across the board. If they hit freethrows at a normal clip and sink more than 1 of 18 threes then they are in the game and possibly win.

MSU looks very beatable if refs are willing to call fouls when they occur.

MSU is a turnover machine. Many of their turnovers are unforced.

Honestly, i thought MSU was going to be a lot better than they are.


#1603

They just beat DePaul, Connecticut, and North Carolina by a combined 60 points at a neutral court site.


#1604

This always seems to be what I say going into every MSU game.

Somehow, it seldom works out in Michigan’s favor. Sparty almost always adopts a “they can’t call every foul” mentality and the refs get worked over to the point where they stay after the game to help carry Izzo’s bags to the bus. I usually end up cursing at the refs endlessly during and after those games.

Wash, rinse, repeat.


#1605

Not in love with this MSU team, sorry.

Arkansas blew out UCONN very badly as well. MSU usually has the kind of turnovers you can live with if you are Izzo. Because they are fast outlet and transition turnovers early in the season and then it gets smoothed out as the time goes by. This year’s MSU seems to have a ton of boneheaded turnovers. They are good but don’t see MSU as an unstoppable juggernaut.


#1606

UM is 7-6 in the last 7 years against MSU.

They’ve looked pretty good though this year. Crushed some decent teams on a neutral court and were up on Duke late. They’re going to be a top team all year. Doesn’t mean that they don’t have weaknesses, and if UM can keep them off the offensive boards and force some TOs, then we could be in fine shape. Only one game this year, though, and it’s in East Lansing, and they’re going to put a ton of pressure on us. The team will have to play really tough, mentally, to have any kind of chance.


#1607

Well said.

For whatever reason the refs chalk it up as “physical style of play” whenever they are dealing with MSU. It is depressing when our team is the victim of MSU’s insane and strategic over fouling.

IMO, Izzo’s effective strategy of fouling more than the other team is bad for basketball…Izzo is bad for basketball. Sorry, izz, just my opinion.


#1608

That’s true, but to be fair Sparty has taken 5 of the last 6 games. In the MSU wins in that stretch, only once was Michigan able to keep the final margin to single digits. Blame recency bias for my take if you like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan–Michigan_State_men's_basketball_rivalry#All-time_meetings

That said, I enjoyed the first half of last year’s game in A2 so damn much. Exercised some demons with that one.


#1609

Four of those five MSU wins were against injury plagued Michigan teams. One was a game we lead until the last couple of minutes in EL with Spike on two bad hips as our full time PG. When the talent on the floor has been more even, we’ve been better than them.


#1610

You can always look at things different ways. UM outscored MSU by 21 over two games last year. So, while I agree with you that sometimes MSU gets away with “aggressive” D that puts the pressure on refs to actually call fouls, once JB got his program here going he’s had fine results against MSU and his better (i.e., non-decimated) UM teams have fared even better.


#1611

…and this is what I’d like to get back to–which I admit is still a hijacking of the thread and subject to Dylan jettisoning these posts into the void–moreso than Coach B’s record vs. Sparty. Even in Michigan victories, State’s M.O. is to play so physically that only the most egregious fouls are called, whether a result of ref intimidation or Sparty taking advantage of refs’ inclination to not give a player their third foul in the first half or fifth foul in the second half.

This is why I felt compelled to respond to GTFOMC when he said “MSU looks very beatable if refs are willing to call fouls when they occur.” That’s a statement that shouldn’t need to be said but makes perfect sense to those of us who have watched too many games where Sparty has been allowed to play like that one spastic kid we all played against back in middle school.

Anyhoo, I’m cool with us all going back to taking B1G-ACC games this week.


#1612

This has often been their M.O. in football, too. Often–across sports–the less talented team adopts a bullying stance against finesse teams. But while it may have brought MSU relative success in both sports, I wonder if it has paid off on the highest stage for Izzo. Arguably it has not.


#1613

I think the titles would argue that is has paid off.


#1614

Title*, if we’re talking about Izzo’s philosophy.

I guess if winning one title means it has “paid off” then sure, it has. I get that opinion and it’s certainly legitimate. I’d give a lot to see Michigan win one in either sport. However, since that title they’ve lost a lot of final fours (many of them in blowout fashion), which yes, getting there is impressive, but certainly not the ultimate goal, and they’ve won only 4 Big Ten championships in 17 seasons. For a program that’s supposedly on the edge or part of the blue bloods, I don’t think 4 conference titles in the 17 seasons since their last national championship is very good.


#1615

I’ve always wondered if there is any evidence to support the idea that “physical teams” are rewarded in the first few rounds of NCAA tournament because of the unspoken need to keep games on schedule—so the physical team gets away with some of their fouling without a punishment. Also, I’ve wondered if there is a disadvantage to playing more physically in the final four because of an unspoken need/incentive for longer games because stopping a game and making it longer gives more opportunity for more commercials. Sorry—this belongs in a conspiracy theory thread…


#1616

Come on man. We would all probably sacrifice a pinky toe for Michigan to have Izzo’s record over the last 20 years. I think its silly for us to try and down play it any way, shape or form.


#1617

Keep your hands off my pinky toe.


#1618

I’ve never thought about that but I buy it.

Also I enjoy refs who let physical hoops go.


#1619

Wisconsin dropped a whopping 37 points against Virginia tonight! Shot 31% from the floor. They’re 3-4 now with a big game against Ohio State coming this weekend


#1620

The B1G is off to a very slow start to OOC play. Unless things turn around soon, the conference could be capping itself off at 5 tourney teams? Likely too much in-conference blood-letting for more teams than that to build strong resumes?