Big Ten Discussion


I agree there. Ward is an effective college scorer that can still hang defensively against teams that won’t pull him to the perimeter - which is most of them.


I bring up the NBA to point out that I’m not sure what potential Izzo is ruining.

I don’t really see how Ward’s potential has been stymied, is my point. I’m not sure a decision to go pro can really be “blamed” on Izzo. Were Izzo’s substitution patterns weird last year? Yes. Should Ward have probably played more?

If you look at advanced stats, there is plenty to suggest Ward is not significantly more effective than Xavier Tillman (he is better offensively).

Frankly, my problem with Izzo this year was more that he didn’t just bench Ward for McQuaid and play Jackson/Bridges up front.


College potential. He could be a double double machine similar to Kennedy Meeks (Don’t let low scoring numbers cloud your judgement on his offense, he just had some great players beside him that demanded high usage) but right now he’s been at 13.1 points and 6.8 rebounds over two years on less than 20 minutes per game. His potential is, again, in my opinion, a poor man’s (or maybe not even poor) Caleb Swanigan who gets 16 and 10 per game.

We’re talking about a guy who had the best offensive rebound rate in the country, was a top 100 defensive rebounder, had a top 75 block rate, was 4th in the country at drawing fouls (and converted at 62%), and was efficient on high usage when playing despite being a post up guy. He played 47% of minutes. His foul rate was on the high end, but nothing that prevented him from playing more (5 per 40).

And you don’t think getting constantly benched for worse players hurt his attitude / developmental path and it wasn’t a factor in MSU insiders thinking he won’t be playing there next year?


I guess I don’t think Tillman is worse. Offensively, sure. Defensively not.

Given his physique I wonder how much of his minutes limit (certainly not all) is on his conditioning. I acknowledge that MSU seems to have a lousy record getting guys in shape (Draymond would be the exemplar here).


If Tillman ever reaches a point in his career where this is true of him

We’re talking about a guy who had the best offensive rebound rate in the country, was a top 100 defensive rebounder, had a top 75 block rate, was 4th in the country at drawing fouls (and converted at 62%), and was efficient on high usage when playing despite being a post up guy.

with enough minutes to qualify for the national ranks I’ll be shocked. Schilling played more minutes than Tillman on the year though.

I was thinking of bringing that up, but it could be on MSU or him so idk.


I’m probably and outlier but I’d confidently put chips on Tillman having better stats all the way around when his career at State is done compared to Ward. Big difference is Ward has 1 win vs us and (no offense to the kid) but I hope Tillman doesn’t ever get one.


I just watched a lot of highlights of foster loyer after he won mr basketball and got a lot of praise on here along with other places/ he’s going to m state. A few thoughts.

Obviously his production has been awesome and his high school team just wins it seems like. Honestly though I wasn’t overly impressed. Obviously he’s very skilled and an elite shooter at all levels , especially from 3. At the same time , he wasn’t very quick / athletic imo. I’m wondering if he’s going to be able to get those shots off/ clean looks against bigger/ faster competition.

I also didn’t think he looked a legit 6-1 In any of the videos. I also watched the game heads up versus dejulius . Imo dejulius looked like the better player and certainly like the better prospect gong forward into college. Imo we def got the better pick up and I’m very very pleased we have David and they have foster.

For instance if zavier was checking foster over the next two seasons ( if foster can earn the back up minutes ) I think zavier would absolutely dominate him and suffocate him. Foster wouldnt get anything off. Either way I’m ok with him running point for then after winston.


As far as his height goes, he is 5’8” at best. For comparison, Dejulius is 5’10”


I think he’s a better version of Spike. He will probably be a better shooter than Spike in college. Should be a solid backup for Winston for two years. Against certain teams, they could play both at the same time.

The key for him will be the other players he’s surrounded with. If he has to be “the man” at any point in his career, he’s going to have to be one of the craftiest players in college b-ball history in order for him to dominate.


Good article on the Loyers’; the parents pedigree, dads college and NBA coaching resume and the move to Clarkston.
I would love if Loyer we coming to M, but I do like DeJulius a little more


It’s probably worth remembering that Loyer isn’t regarded as a huge prospect - both services I looked at have him lower than Bingham, Johns, DeJulius, and Gabe Brown. His HS career seems great but very few see him as a college star.


Izzo must see it differently.



Good read.

I am positive there are many around Big Ten country hoping Wagner heads to the NBA.

I also think Maryland could be really good next year if the pieces fall right.






Interesting pickup for sure. Highest %Shots of anyone in the NCAA. Played pretty much the same overall as he did vs 100 teams. Good shooting numbers, but sub 100 ORtg.


Massive usage mid-major with poor ORtg. Don’t think Michigan has any experience with hoping those solve our problems.


Someone has to take Bryant McIntosh’s shots… Funny story, Michigan was actually poking around there back when Taylor was graduating prep.


Any chance you can lookup what percentage of his shots were assisted?