Talked about this on the pod about MSU’s issues… I think it is really hard to recruit a point guard when you have a freshman starter who is almost certainly going to be there for four years.
The schedule update we’ve been waiting for…
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lol, nice troll job by the official account.
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understandable why it would be tough to recruit a top 25/50 type kid to compete with a freshman starter. But as that freshman becomes a sophomore/junior it has to not be too tough to snag a kid in the 3-4 star range that will be willing to come in and play 10-15 mpg as a freshman and then likely start as a sophomore or junior.
Turns out that is easier said than done, though, given the struggles MSU (Loyer is that guy you are describing) and Maryland (never really found anyone) have had finding reliable PG play after a long-time starter graduated.
Michigan would have had the same issue if it didn’t find Mike Smith. And remember, they wanted Bryce Aiken first… if he was on the roster instead of Smith, I think you’d have a world of issues just given his health. He hasn’t played more than 22 minutes in a game this season.
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I never saw Loyer as a P5 caliber player when he played at Clarkston. Yes, he was a great HS player but his physical profile doesn’t scream P5 caliber to me. He’s small and not athletic. He might be better off playing at D2 level where his size/athleticism would be less of an issue. He’s barely playable if he can shoot 3s. He’s a 35% 3 pt shooter this season and that’s not cutting it for a smallish PG.
I think you’re right about roster construction - which is a similar situation happening in football with QBs right now. So many starting QBs at major colleges are transfers because the days of stockpiling bench talent that’s willing to sit for 3 years are over.
Some ways I think you could address that as a coach when you’re building the roster:
- Make sure that you bring in a good PG when your starter is in their last year so you can groom them for one season in a back-up role. Easier said than done, but should be the goal.
- Take a “combo guard” in alternate years (Brooks) that can fill in some and might turn out to have some PG skills over time.
- Take a flyer on a lower-ranked guy or transfer when you have an established starter. Spike is an example of this when we already had Burke and Walton.
MSU’s problem, IMO, wasn’t taking Loyer when they did since I don’t think they ever saw him as more than their version of Spike (though ridiculously higher ranked for no apparent reason). I think MSU’s problem was a combination of expecting Watts to be able to play PG and not prioritizing a true PG instead of Hoggard.
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It isn’t hard to follow some of MSU’s logic for their post-Winston era. It isn’t entirely unlike what Michigan went through with Burke.
- Loyer as an emergency back-up who can give us ~15 minutes as a steady veteran. (aka Spike)
- Have a “star” SG in Watts that will consume a lot of possessions and take pressure off the PG. (aka Stauskas)
- Bring in your next PG knowing that the first year they will be up and down, but you don’t ask them to do too much because your SG will be the alpha (aka Walton)
The two issues with MSU is that Watts hasn’t just been having a THJ-like slump…he’s been AWFUL. Additionally Hoggard was probably the wrong guy to sign instead of a true PG that you could build with. Now they’re going to run it back and try again next year with Akins in the role of freshman, Loyer once again as veteran, but still unsure of who your alpha playmaker is.
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All that and: Izzo put all his eggs in the Karim Mane basket. Izzo knew he needed something else at PG. But Mane went pro, and then Izzo had no time to get into the transfer game.
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Huh…I had no memory of Karim Mane and the story behind it. I just had to do some internet research to educate myself. He seems like an interesting prospect who maybe thought a little too highly of himself late in the process and ended up going undrafted and is now in the G-League. Definitely would have been an interesting prospect for MSU to be sure.
I think losing Jalen Terry (perhaps because they had signed Hoggard and were also after Mane) hurt. It felt like Izzo recognized the issue and was trying to solve it - but maybe ended up losing out on the one true PG of the three (Terry) and the guy with the highest potential (Mane). I’m still not convinced he would have solved the PG issues after reading this piece about how he broke on the scene. Feels more like a SG to me…
Did they take Hoggard over Terry, or was Terry already off the board?
Hoggard committed after Terry. And then I think Terry didn’t like that they recruited another PG/CG type so he decommitted.
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I would have to imagine if they had to do it all over again they would have not taken Hoggard if it was going to scare off Terry.
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Michigan had not only Stauskas but also Levert.
Michigan did have David DeJulius playing PG to take over from Simpson when he graduated. The fact he ultimately left in transfer doesn’t mean they did not recruit the position.
Also MSU with Loyer did sign him to replace Winston. Maryland literally signed nobody over 4 consecutive classes which is stunning to me.
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Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t they recruit Ayala as a PG?? Whether or not you believe he’s capable of being a PG doesn’t mean Maryland didn’t want him to be a PG.
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They recruited several combo guards like Ayala and Hart. I mean it is nice to hope they can be a PG but still a bit weird your only hope are guys that were barely PGs in high school.
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They recruited him as a CG to play (at least part of his career) beside Cowan. Every PG commit they’ve signed since Cowan all the way back in 2016 has been listed as a CG on 247.
Now, I’m sure Turgeon and his staff envisioned at least one CG in five years panning out as a true PG. 247’s database is not necessarily reflective of Maryland’s scouting. But it’s potentially indicative of the blind spot in Turgeon’s roster management that got us to this point.
Maryland’s PG signees by year…
2020: none
2019: none
2018: none
2017: none
2016: Anthony Cowan (played alongside Trimble for a year, basically a 4 year starter)
2015: none
2014: Melo Trimble (3 year starter)
2013: Roddy Peters (top 50 recruit flamed out and transferred after 1 year)
2012: Seth Allen (played for 2 years before transferring to VT)
For a while Turgeon was regularly bringing in PG recruits and then he almost totally stopped
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