Austin Davis Commits to Michigan

Recruiting
161

You’ve got to be able to take it if you’re dishing it hourly. If you’re consumed by hostility toward Beilein and not even willing to accept the givens of his approach–of course people are going to criticize back. If this is the only remaining roster move, and if Davis fails to pan out, get back to us. But in the meantime, careful sifting of the evidence suggests there has almost got to be some additional space opening up for other recruits. A measured assessment suggests that this may NOT be the gotcha moment in which Beilein proves that he’s an idiot after all (recent astonishing success notwithstanding).

P.S. Poppinfresh is asserting that Beilein is vetoing guys that Bacari wants–unless proven, this is totally out of left field. Not sure why Bacari would make ten inspirational tweets defending the get if he wasn’t behind it.

162

Hostility…cmon man, its just getting to the point where your posts have very little insight or informational value. You simply feel it is your absolute duty to defend anything UM/JB related regardless of whether it is logical, preferrable, or proven to win.

163

apologies, may not articulated it… not saying JB is vetoing anyone, it just feels like our assistants lead more so on elite recuits than the head coach, where i feel like at other schools its the reverse, where the more charismatic head man is selling and reeling in the recruit. i could be wrong on this.

as someone else put it, you drive into a car lot and you have beilein, izzo or calipari selling ya a car as a kid, who’s car are you driving home in?

164

I’ll just note that poppinfresh responded to my substantive comment in substantive fashion, and that several people took the time to note their agreement with my previous post. I do feel a little amused that people are so invested in ripping Beilein’s recruiting decisions, especially because by any outward standard Beilein has been so phenomenally successful. In fact, I think he probably enjoys finding diamond-in-the-rough kids more than he likes courting one-and-dones, and I weirdly find that totally cool. I regret that we have lost out on some kids, but to let that translate into hostility against Beilein is to me regrettable.

I have expressed concern that we might be losing contact with poor or inner-city kids after people asserted this, and would definitely feel critical if this were the case. I can see that this might be true, a blind sport of Beilein’s (or matter of comfort level, whatever), but no one bothered to take me up on that. I think that there’s a still finer line that he’s trying to adhere to that might be too nuanced for some here to care to parse, but that’s alright. Meantime, I feel like Beilein’s effort this year was ESPECIALLY laudable, and feel pretty confident that any person with power over him, indeed any sensible person, including Hackett, feels the same. This guy is here for the duration, and taking potshots, of course, is what fans do. But that’s what, in my estimation, it tends to feel like here sometimes–kind of a negative echo chamber–and I think that’s regrettable.

165

I get that there has been some contentious debate… But please cut the personal attacks.

166

Until there’s an explanation and someone tells us what we don’t know, there’s no point of getting all crazy, and speculating all the worse about everyone IMO. I am not happy about this either, but obviously, something is up, and each one of us are ignorant in this matter. So I think we should wait, do some digging, and figure out what is going on, rather than waste time and energy criticizing it.

When we have all the information that the staff had, and if it still makes very little sense, then let’s go at it showing our disagreements! I’ll be the first one to do so. Until then, I’ll wait and see what’s going on.

167
Hostility................cmon man, its just getting to the point where your posts have very little insight or informational value. You simply feel it is your absolute duty to defend anything UM/JB related regardless of whether it is logical, preferrable, or proven to win.

I think people need to put things in perspective and realize this isn’t just Austin Davis. This is the recruiting ever since they made the national title game, and I guess you can throw in the elite eight as well. Terrific facilities, team success, high nba draft picks and Michigan isn’t in the hunt for guys like Thomas Bryant, Diamond Stone, or Caleb Swanigan. It’s an under the radar local kid in Austin Davis, it’s a kid in Germany who nobody seems to know about in Moritz Wagner, Kevin Huerter who’s a late bloomer and Michigan is showing interest in. Maybe it all works out but for a team that didn’t exactly set the world on fire this year I would have thought Beilein would be more judicious with offers and team balance in mind.

168

You mean, the coaching staff may have more knowledge about their roster and needs than us fans do? Interesting concept.
I agree. I think Beilein knows what his needs are and wouldn’t knowingly shoot himself in the foot.

169
Hostility................cmon man, its just getting to the point where your posts have very little insight or informational value. You simply feel it is your absolute duty to defend anything UM/JB related regardless of whether it is logical, preferrable, or proven to win.

I think people need to put things in perspective and realize this isn’t just Austin Davis. This is the recruiting ever since they made the national title game, and I guess you can throw in the elite eight as well. Terrific facilities, team success, high nba draft picks and Michigan isn’t in the hunt for guys like Thomas Bryant, Diamond Stone, or Caleb Swanigan. It’s an under the radar local kid in Austin Davis, it’s a kid in Germany who nobody seems to know about in Moritz Wagner, Kevin Huerter who’s a late bloomer and Michigan is showing interest in. Maybe it all works out but for a team that didn’t exactly set the world on fire this year I would have thought Beilein would be more judicious with offers and team balance in mind.

THIS has been my exact point for the past year…it’s not about Davis per se, its about the fact that our recruiting trajectory isn’t very encouraging when looking at it in totality. Throw in the fact that we’re coming off a national championship game only 2 years ago…and it is perplexing and disappointing that our recruiting has actually regressed.

Look, if we’re going to be totally blunt about it, we’re trying to build a great team with mid-major talent and athleticism. I remember when Irvin committed, his pops had a comment something along the lines of “I’ve always liked Beilein’s system, and the fact that he’s been doing it with mid major type talent shows he knows what he’s doing, but when he started getting more talented kids like GR3, Mitch, etc. is when it became really attractive to us”…so fitting, and yet so far in the past.

170

Good Lord, mid-major talent, huh? Recruits since the 2012 class: Irvin (top 25), Walton (top 40), Donnal (top 100), Doyle (got him over ND), Chatman (top 25 - got him over AZ), Wilson (top 100 - got him over Gonzaga), Dawkins (if you reranked the class today, he’s a top 50 guy), MAAR (sure, mid-major talent perhaps, but he had some nice moments this year), Robinson (we’ll see), and Wagner (Rivals says top 20-40, but maybe he’s “only” top 60-80).

That’s mid-major talent? I hate it when people grossly exaggerate to make an argument - it really detracts from your credibility.

If you want to argue Davis makes no sense from a roster composition standpoint, fine. From a talent standpoint? Well, people who have played basketball at a much higher level than anyone on this board, and who get paid a lot of money to evaluate talent, disagree. And by the way, the latest on Davis is that Wisconsin and ND were starting to show a lot of interest. So, one coaching staff that went 32-5 this year, beat UNC and Duke in the ACC tourney, and took UK to the wire, and another staff that beat UK. But those guys must be stupid too.

Davis is 16. Using current film to conclude he’ll never be any good is, well, nuts. Let’s wait to see how he improves, how he reshapes his body in a college S&C program, and how he responds to coaching before drawing any knee-jerk conclusions.

Of course, I know its much easier to just ask whether he’s rated in the top 25, and if not, conclude our staff can’t recruit.

171

Regarding roster composition, Beilein seems to prefer having 4 bigs on the roster–at least over the past few years. The 2012-13 team actually had 5 scholarship bigs on the roster–Morgan, Horford, McLimans, McGary, and Max.

I personally think that 3 should be sufficient given that we play a 1-big lineup, but I can understand 4. Outside of McGary, we typically don’t land instant impact, guaranteed-to-be-good bigs. We might as well have an extra bullet in the chamber.

9 scholarship players for the other 4 positions hasn’t been as problematic as it would seem to be given that JB has kept a small rotation and the perimeter players have been fairly versatile and have had similar skill sets.

The cause for concern now is that our perimeter players aren’t as versatile as they have been over the past few years. They seem to be a little more one-dimensional.

I am certainly concerned, but I’m willing to wait to see how things shake out over the next few weeks. If thing a happen such that we have the room to add Williams this year and a PG and/or wing in 2016, I’ll feel a little better.

172
Good Lord, mid-major talent, huh? Recruits since the 2012 class: Irvin (top 25), Walton (top 40), Donnal (top 100), Doyle (got him over ND), Chatman (top 25 - got him over AZ), Wilson (top 100 - got him over Gonzaga), Dawkins (if you reranked the class today, he's a top 50 guy), MAAR (sure, mid-major talent perhaps, but he had some nice moments this year), Robinson (we'll see), and Wagner (Rivals says top 20-40, but maybe he's "only" top 60-80).

That’s mid-major talent? I hate it when people grossly exaggerate to make an argument - it really detracts from your credibility.

If you want to argue Davis makes no sense from a roster composition standpoint, fine. From a talent standpoint? Well, people who have played basketball at a much higher level than anyone on this board, and who get paid a lot of money to evaluate talent, disagree. And by the way, the latest on Davis is that Wisconsin and ND were starting to show a lot of interest. So, one coaching staff that went 32-5 this year, beat UNC and Duke in the ACC tourney, and took UK to the wire, and another staff that beat UK. But those guys must be stupid too.

Davis is 16. Using current film to conclude he’ll never be any good is, well, nuts. Let’s wait to see how he improves, how he reshapes his body in a college S&C program, and how he responds to coaching before drawing any knee-jerk conclusions.

Of course, I know its much easier to just ask whether he’s rated in the top 25, and if not, conclude our staff can’t recruit.

See my comments above, I basically restricted to the time period post 2013 recruiting signees.

Man look, I know you are a diehard supporter of JB, and that’s admirable…but at some point you just have to be more realistic. If you think JB is pulling in high major talent that can put us in position to to win at an elite level…then I really don’t know what to say.

173

One funny part about recruiting is that it is such a crap shoot. The two highest rated commits that JB has landed were McGary and Chatman. McGary lived up to the hype, Chatman is now being pitched as a recruiting failure.

GR3 and Stauskas are two guys that were pretty much under the radar when they committed before their final AAU seasons (GR3 before his junior year) and then really blew up.

Will be interesting to see how things play out. Davis doesn’t really move the needle, but he’ll add depth to the five spot. The key is still the same… Finding two guards/wings to make a difference on the perimeter.

174
Hostility................cmon man, its just getting to the point where your posts have very little insight or informational value. You simply feel it is your absolute duty to defend anything UM/JB related regardless of whether it is logical, preferrable, or proven to win.

I think people need to put things in perspective and realize this isn’t just Austin Davis. This is the recruiting ever since they made the national title game, and I guess you can throw in the elite eight as well. Terrific facilities, team success, high nba draft picks and Michigan isn’t in the hunt for guys like Thomas Bryant, Diamond Stone, or Caleb Swanigan. It’s an under the radar local kid in Austin Davis, it’s a kid in Germany who nobody seems to know about in Moritz Wagner, Kevin Huerter who’s a late bloomer and Michigan is showing interest in. Maybe it all works out but for a team that didn’t exactly set the world on fire this year I would have thought Beilein would be more judicious with offers and team balance in mind.

This is my concern as well. Instead of getting better, recruiting has completely gone the wrong direction since the title run.

175
Good Lord, mid-major talent, huh? Recruits since the 2012 class: Irvin (top 25), Walton (top 40), Donnal (top 100), Doyle (got him over ND), Chatman (top 25 - got him over AZ), Wilson (top 100 - got him over Gonzaga), Dawkins (if you reranked the class today, he's a top 50 guy), MAAR (sure, mid-major talent perhaps, but he had some nice moments this year), Robinson (we'll see), and Wagner (Rivals says top 20-40, but maybe he's "only" top 60-80).

Well if you want to play the re-rank game then that goes in both directions. Chatman and Donnal were clearly way over rated. Wilson, may be in the same boat and Wagner, who knows.

In any event, look who the coaches are targeting first. Most of the guys we got were plan B and C recruits as prioritized by our own staff.

176
Good Lord, mid-major talent, huh? Recruits since the 2012 class: Irvin (top 25), Walton (top 40), Donnal (top 100), Doyle (got him over ND), Chatman (top 25 - got him over AZ), Wilson (top 100 - got him over Gonzaga), Dawkins (if you reranked the class today, he's a top 50 guy), MAAR (sure, mid-major talent perhaps, but he had some nice moments this year), Robinson (we'll see), and Wagner (Rivals says top 20-40, but maybe he's "only" top 60-80).

Well if you want to play the re-rank game then that goes in both directions. Chatman and Donnal were clearly way over rated. Wilson, may be in the same boat and Wagner, who knows.

In any event, look who the coaches are targeting first. Most of the guys we got were plan B and C recruits as prioritized by our own staff.

Bottom line is that people can claim we spot ‘diamonds in the rough’, but in reality we settle for the majority of our players, because hardly any of the preferred targets will play for UM.

177

Think it’s important to remember that it’s all about who you end up getting, not who you miss on. (i.e. in 2012 Michigan missed on Valentine/Costello and then landed Stauskas/McGary… in 2014 they missed on Booker but landed Chatman… that one didn’t work out so well although they were similarly ranked).

They need to land some quality guards and wings in the next two classes… But they still have time.

178

At the risk of being a bit off-topic, in regard to Chatman, I have a lot of faith in him. He said himself he needs to “slow down.” He plays the game with passion and attacks the rim with–sometimes–some nifty moves. I think he’ll contribute quite a few steals and hustle plays and maybe some scoring. Just a hunch.

179
Think it's important to remember that it's all about who you end up getting, not who you miss on. (i.e. in 2012 Michigan missed on Valentine/Costello and then landed Stauskas/McGary... in 2014 they missed on Booker but landed Chatman... that one didn't work out so well although they were similarly ranked).

They need to land some quality guards and wings in the next two classes… But they still have time.

I disagree - it only matters who you get when the player that fills the shoes of the preferred target is as good, or comparable. It would be foolish to think that it doesn’t matter when we end up settling for some project type guard while Derryck Thornton goes to Duke.

180
I think people need to put things in perspective and realize this isn't just Austin Davis. This is the recruiting ever since they made the national title game, and I guess you can throw in the elite eight as well. Terrific facilities, team success, high nba draft picks and Michigan isn't in the hunt for guys like Thomas Bryant, Diamond Stone, or Caleb Swanigan. It's an under the radar local kid in Austin Davis, it's a kid in Germany who nobody seems to know about in Moritz Wagner, Kevin Huerter who's a late bloomer and Michigan is showing interest in. Maybe it all works out but for a team that didn't exactly set the world on fire this year I would have thought Beilein would be more judicious with offers and team balance in mind.

You are on the cusp of a very valid point. But Diamond Stone? Unless Michigan announces an Under Armour partnership last year, they were not in play. “Nobody” seems to know about Wagner? Maybe nobody except NBA scouts and Rivals’ guy who says he’s a top 20-40 in his class type talent (not to mention the people that wanted to pay him to play professionally in Germany rather than go to college).

Reign in the exaggeration and you’re on to something.