Austin Davis Commits to Michigan

There’s no doubt we haven’t won any recruiting battles with Duke, other than McGary. If that’s the standard, then just about every coach in the country not named Calipari or Self is also a bad recruiter. I don’t think Duke is a clean program, but let’s just assume they are. I don’t think there’s any shame in admitting Coach K has a better resume than any coach in the country, and his program produces a ton of NBA talent (oh, and for the few recruits who care, it’s an elite academic institution too).

We’re not going to win battles with the likes of Kentucky and Kansas. We can’t promise cash and optional class attendance. And if you don’t think those two programs offer things of that sort, I’d say you’ve got your head in the sand.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

I know a lot of folks here are upset and its not the kid who we are upset at and I hope Davis realize that. But are we really surprised we got another non athletic big white kid who is slow ( Horford included)? I just think this the big men he prefers .

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

I’m not trying to beat a “bad recruiting” horse, just putting in info–we lost out on Vince Edwards to Purdue. I really wanted him.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

I’m not trying to beat a “bad recruiting” horse, just putting in info–we lost out on Vince Edwards to Purdue. I really wanted him.

Lost out seems a bit strong of a term. My impression of that recruitment was that Michigan stopped recruiting him heavily, while Purdue kept up the pressure. But maybe I’m mis-remembering.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

I’m not trying to beat a “bad recruiting” horse, just putting in info–we lost out on Vince Edwards to Purdue. I really wanted him.

Lost out seems a bit strong of a term. My impression of that recruitment was that Michigan stopped recruiting him heavily, while Purdue kept up the pressure. But maybe I’m mis-remembering.

This is just the explanation for why we lost him, but the fact remains we lost to Purdue. We can rationalize in any number of ways, but the fact is, we simply aren’t getting the job done on the recruiting trail in terms of talent acquisition.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

I’m not trying to beat a “bad recruiting” horse, just putting in info–we lost out on Vince Edwards to Purdue. I really wanted him.

Lost out seems a bit strong of a term. My impression of that recruitment was that Michigan stopped recruiting him heavily, while Purdue kept up the pressure. But maybe I’m mis-remembering.

This is just the explanation for why we lost him, but the fact remains we lost to Purdue. We can rationalize in any number of ways, but the fact is, we simply aren’t getting the job done on the recruiting trail in terms of talent acquisition.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree on the idea that we “lost him” to Purdue if my recollection of how that recruitment plays out is at all accurate (which I’m not promising it is). It doesn’t seem healthy to me to bemoan each and every recruit that we miss out on (though some do hurt more than others, Booker and Kennard being Exhibits A and B for me).

There's no doubt we haven't won any recruiting battles with Duke, other than McGary. If that's the standard, then just about every coach in the country not named Calipari or Self is also a bad recruiter. I don't think Duke is a clean program, but let's just assume they are. I don't think there's any shame in admitting Coach K has a better resume than any coach in the country, and his program produces a ton of NBA talent (oh, and for the few recruits who care, it's an elite academic institution too).

We’re not going to win battles with the likes of Kentucky and Kansas. We can’t promise cash and optional class attendance. And if you don’t think those two programs offer things of that sort, I’d say you’ve got your head in the sand.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

Sigh. I don’t know how many times I can say this. No rational fan is expecting this program to consistently recruit with Duke, Kentucky or Kansas. That straw man has been trotted out so many times, there is no straw left. There are miles between top 5 recruiting classes and the classes we have pulled in 2014-16.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

I’m not trying to beat a “bad recruiting” horse, just putting in info–we lost out on Vince Edwards to Purdue. I really wanted him.

Lost out seems a bit strong of a term. My impression of that recruitment was that Michigan stopped recruiting him heavily, while Purdue kept up the pressure. But maybe I’m mis-remembering.

This is just the explanation for why we lost him, but the fact remains we lost to Purdue. We can rationalize in any number of ways, but the fact is, we simply aren’t getting the job done on the recruiting trail in terms of talent acquisition.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree on the idea that we “lost him” to Purdue if my recollection of how that recruitment plays out is at all accurate (which I’m not promising it is). It doesn’t seem healthy to me to bemoan each and every recruit that we miss out on (though some do hurt more than others, Booker and Kennard being Exhibits A and B for me).

I think its fair to complain and question the coaching staff when that is their job. As an employee of a public university, John Beilein and co. are paid by the taxpayers…of which I’m included. That being said, I’ll complain all I want if I’m not happy considering I’m a Michigan resident contributing to his salary.

There's no doubt we haven't won any recruiting battles with Duke, other than McGary. If that's the standard, then just about every coach in the country not named Calipari or Self is also a bad recruiter. I don't think Duke is a clean program, but let's just assume they are. I don't think there's any shame in admitting Coach K has a better resume than any coach in the country, and his program produces a ton of NBA talent (oh, and for the few recruits who care, it's an elite academic institution too).

We’re not going to win battles with the likes of Kentucky and Kansas. We can’t promise cash and optional class attendance. And if you don’t think those two programs offer things of that sort, I’d say you’ve got your head in the sand.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

The bottom line, to me, is this–it is equally as absurd to suggest that recruiting is humming along as it is to suggest that we’re trying to win the Big Ten with MAC talent. We’ve lost too many guys who were Plan A (and gotten too few) not to be at least somewhat perplexed and disappointed. At the same time, even if we take out the class of '13, the kids we’ve taken in '14 and '15–Chatman, Wilson, Dawkins, Abdur-Rahkman, Doyle, Wagner, possibly Williams, and Robinson as a transfer–are a pretty good combination of kids, and way above mid-major talent.

One other note–the suggestion is being advanced that Davis is going to go prep and join the program as a '17 recruit. If that’s the case, it sheds a completely different light on the offer from Beilein.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

I’m not trying to beat a “bad recruiting” horse, just putting in info–we lost out on Vince Edwards to Purdue. I really wanted him.

Lost out seems a bit strong of a term. My impression of that recruitment was that Michigan stopped recruiting him heavily, while Purdue kept up the pressure. But maybe I’m mis-remembering.

This is just the explanation for why we lost him, but the fact remains we lost to Purdue. We can rationalize in any number of ways, but the fact is, we simply aren’t getting the job done on the recruiting trail in terms of talent acquisition.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree on the idea that we “lost him” to Purdue if my recollection of how that recruitment plays out is at all accurate (which I’m not promising it is). It doesn’t seem healthy to me to bemoan each and every recruit that we miss out on (though some do hurt more than others, Booker and Kennard being Exhibits A and B for me).

I think its fair to complain and question the coaching staff when that is their job. As an employee of a public university, John Beilein and co. are paid by the taxpayers…of which I’m included. That being said, I’ll complain all I want if I’m not happy considering I’m a Michigan resident contributing to his salary.

Not saying it’s not fair to complain or question, just saying I personally don’t think it’s a healthy way to follow recruiting or college basketball. Just my opinion, not one I am asking you to share :).

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

I’m not trying to beat a “bad recruiting” horse, just putting in info–we lost out on Vince Edwards to Purdue. I really wanted him.

Lost out seems a bit strong of a term. My impression of that recruitment was that Michigan stopped recruiting him heavily, while Purdue kept up the pressure. But maybe I’m mis-remembering.

This is just the explanation for why we lost him, but the fact remains we lost to Purdue. We can rationalize in any number of ways, but the fact is, we simply aren’t getting the job done on the recruiting trail in terms of talent acquisition.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree on the idea that we “lost him” to Purdue if my recollection of how that recruitment plays out is at all accurate (which I’m not promising it is). It doesn’t seem healthy to me to bemoan each and every recruit that we miss out on (though some do hurt more than others, Booker and Kennard being Exhibits A and B for me).

LAW asked “who else have we lost direct recruiting battles” and named a bunch and I answered his question.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

I’m not trying to beat a “bad recruiting” horse, just putting in info–we lost out on Vince Edwards to Purdue. I really wanted him.

Lost out seems a bit strong of a term. My impression of that recruitment was that Michigan stopped recruiting him heavily, while Purdue kept up the pressure. But maybe I’m mis-remembering.

This is just the explanation for why we lost him, but the fact remains we lost to Purdue. We can rationalize in any number of ways, but the fact is, we simply aren’t getting the job done on the recruiting trail in terms of talent acquisition.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree on the idea that we “lost him” to Purdue if my recollection of how that recruitment plays out is at all accurate (which I’m not promising it is). It doesn’t seem healthy to me to bemoan each and every recruit that we miss out on (though some do hurt more than others, Booker and Kennard being Exhibits A and B for me).

LAW asked “who else have we lost direct recruiting battles” and named a bunch and I answered his question.

Fine, I’m just interjecting separate from that discussion that I don’t personally see it as us losing out as I thought we were recruiting him less hard while ramping up recruitment of Chatman. I apologize for hijacking that topic then.

One other note–the suggestion is being advanced that Davis is going to go prep and join the program as a '17 recruit. If that’s the case, it sheds a completely different light on the offer from Beilein.

Yeah, I’d feel much, much better about it if that were the case.

There's no doubt we haven't won any recruiting battles with Duke, other than McGary. If that's the standard, then just about every coach in the country not named Calipari or Self is also a bad recruiter. I don't think Duke is a clean program, but let's just assume they are. I don't think there's any shame in admitting Coach K has a better resume than any coach in the country, and his program produces a ton of NBA talent (oh, and for the few recruits who care, it's an elite academic institution too).

We’re not going to win battles with the likes of Kentucky and Kansas. We can’t promise cash and optional class attendance. And if you don’t think those two programs offer things of that sort, I’d say you’ve got your head in the sand.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

The bottom line, to me, is this–it is equally as absurd to suggest that recruiting is humming along as it is to suggest that we’re trying to win the Big Ten with MAC talent. We’ve lost too many guys who were Plan A (and gotten too few) not to be at least somewhat perplexed and disappointed. At the same time, even if we take out the class of '13, the kids we’ve taken in '14 and '15–Chatman, Wilson, Dawkins, Abdur-Rahkman, Doyle, Wagner, possibly Williams, and Robinson as a transfer–are a pretty good combination of kids, and way above mid-major talent.

One other note–the suggestion is being advanced that Davis is going to go prep and join the program as a '17 recruit. If that’s the case, it sheds a completely different light on the offer from Beilein.

RE: Post 13 kids - that’s where I differ; those kids are only as good as the talent/creators around them. Independently, they are role players/mid major types in my eyes for the most part…with MAAR being the exception.

Who else have we lost direct recruiting battles with in 2014 and 2015? I guess KBD to OSU. First, Matta is a really good coach. Second, we beat out OSU for Teske, so we’re 1-1 against them lately (let’s see how Towns plays out, though to be fair he’s from Columbus and is a lifelong OSU fan). Brunson? Dad is from Philly, he walks into a starting PG job at a very good program. We beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Gonzaga for Wilson - two solid gets. UCLA got Looney - UCLA is a storied program with a history of cheating (see Sam Gilbert, see Sean Higgins’ recruitment, see Jim Herrick), and Looney’s gone after one year anyway. IU and Blackmon - he’s from there, and originally committed there. Can’t see how we should have ever been the favorite with him. The fact that his three finalists were us, IU and UK is probably a good sign about this staff’s ability to recruit.

Yes, we absolutely need to add an elite wing in 2016 (whether it’s one of our top guys, or a guy like Jefferson or Hughes), and a PG in either 16 or 17. Agreed. But I don’t think recruiting has been as poor as some have suggested. Making one title game after 20 years is not going to vault us to the top of the list over Duke, and like I say, recruiting against Kansas and UK is not a fair fight.

I’m not trying to beat a “bad recruiting” horse, just putting in info–we lost out on Vince Edwards to Purdue. I really wanted him.

Lost out seems a bit strong of a term. My impression of that recruitment was that Michigan stopped recruiting him heavily, while Purdue kept up the pressure. But maybe I’m mis-remembering.

This is just the explanation for why we lost him, but the fact remains we lost to Purdue. We can rationalize in any number of ways, but the fact is, we simply aren’t getting the job done on the recruiting trail in terms of talent acquisition.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree on the idea that we “lost him” to Purdue if my recollection of how that recruitment plays out is at all accurate (which I’m not promising it is). It doesn’t seem healthy to me to bemoan each and every recruit that we miss out on (though some do hurt more than others, Booker and Kennard being Exhibits A and B for me).

I think its fair to complain and question the coaching staff when that is their job. As an employee of a public university, John Beilein and co. are paid by the taxpayers…of which I’m included. That being said, I’ll complain all I want if I’m not happy considering I’m a Michigan resident contributing to his salary.

You can still complain all you want, but in pretty sure this isn’t true. Michigan’s athletic department is self-sustaining and does not receive any funds from the University’s general fund or state appropriations.

Fine, I'm just interjecting separate from that discussion that I don't personally see it as us losing out as I thought we were recruiting him less hard while ramping up recruitment of Chatman. I apologize for hijacking that topic then.

That is also my recollection. Fair to question in hindsight whether it was a mistake, but at the time, had we taken him with others (like Chatman) still on the board, I could see the exact kind of backlash Beilein is getting now. It’s certainly a big boy business, lots of tough decisions out there. I’m guessing one of the reasons for taking Davis now is Beilein thinks it would get much more competitive later once the kid formally blows up, and better to have a bird in hand. It worked with Stauskas and GR3. Hope like heck Davis can prove the doubters wrong in time.

One other note–the suggestion is being advanced that Davis is going to go prep and join the program as a '17 recruit. If that’s the case, it sheds a completely different light on the offer from Beilein.

That would be a reasonable explanation to all this. Where did you get this information, and how viable do you think it is?

Fine, I'm just interjecting separate from that discussion that I don't personally see it as us losing out as I thought we were recruiting him less hard while ramping up recruitment of Chatman. I apologize for hijacking that topic then.

That is also my recollection. Fair to question in hindsight whether it was a mistake, but at the time, had we taken him with others (like Chatman?) still on the board, I could see the exact kind of backlash Beilein is getting now. It’s certainly a big boy business, lots of tough decisions out there. I’m guessing one of the reasons for taking Davis now is Beilein thinks it would get much more competitive later once the kid formally blows up, and better to have a bird in hand. It worked with Stauskas and GR3. Hope like heck Davis can prove the doubters wrong in time.

Well put. And it would be fair to question that hypothetical decision then like it is also fair to question this now. I too hope for the whole team and program that Davis comes in and have good success.

One thing that even Beilein’s most vociferous critics may eventually want to concede: Beilein is likely doing what they have been demanding in getting some face-to-the-basket bigs. As several people at mgoblog point out, Beilein himself acknowledged that we got killed by Kentucky’s bigs, and we have been handled in the B1G more than once underneath. (I’d says it’s fun the way we’ve still often beaten them with Beilein’s system, but that’s a personal preference, and I am definitely one of those who loves our Goliath v. David approach.) I think he’s doing what some of you have been demanding. . . within the parameters of his own system. And if you consider the way someone like Bielfeldt, with his limited athleticism, sometimes managed this year, add a little height, weight, better footwork, hands, a softer touch. . . The other thing is that, as Brian noted, he’ll have his centers stacked like planes over LaGuardia, maturing in their junior and senior years. Also, after reading some of the aggregated press about Austin in Brian’s article–the guy was definitely rising fast. It’s just not apt to condemn the get out of hand.

Well put. And it would be fair to question that hypothetical decision then like it is also fair to question this now. I too hope for the whole team and program that Davis comes in and have good success.

And to take it a step further, here’s what I’m seeing: Everyone (fairly) wanted our staff to capitalize on our title game run. So JB and company stepped up to the plate and took several good swings at some elite prospects. And missed (for whatever reason you want to subscribe). Now they are going back to what they know and trying to win with the kids they can get. It hurts right now because it feels like there’s a ceiling, whereas there was a long while where it felt like the roof came off. It certainly doesn’t mean we still can’t reach those heights (and I’m more optimistic than most it seems), just that we are not suddenly in the elite tier…just didn’t happen. If they never stepped up to the plate for burger boy types, then we’d all be pretty upset too, so at least there’s that. We’ve fully measured ourselves. Program will just have to keep scraping it out and earning it the “hard” way. Five years ago, we’d have killed for the level of success we will see in the next 3-5 years, and now it feels limiting. I can understand both sides.