Sure, some/most players “are who they are” from an athleticism standpoint, but one thing that can absolutely develop with age and on-court experience is basketball IQ. I think JB’s recruiting model is and always has been based on wanting to have upperclassmen on the court who have a great understanding of the game (including defensively) so that they can make up for a lack of “talent”. 2012-2014 changed that drastically. And aesthetically, we as fans typically want to see the flash over the intelligence.
Everyone keeps trying to turn the argument of development into “becoming the next Trey or Nik”, but really development is about these guys becoming better, more consistent versions of themselves. Trey and Nik were the exceptions.
Yeah, a bit of a chicken/egg argument. Are Walton’s numbers low because he’s not getting the passes there or because Duncan isn’t making as many? Tough to say. I’ll run the numbers again for 3s only.
I’ll try to make this brief, since this is a bit polarizing. The problem with Duncan and/or Dawkins isn’t their development in isolation. Because of their weaknesses (IE no ballhandling and no athleticism)…the effectiveness of either player is limited because the current roster and incoming recruits are not prolific (or even good) creators off the dribble. Sure, each player can get better, but both are dependent upon others to get quality looks…so against better defenses, they are most likely going to be ‘just another guy’
MattD, that’s exactly how I feel. I think the best type of role for Duncan Robinson is what Irvin was doing his freshman year - coming off the bench and looking to take open 3’s, having the green light to jack them up. But to have that happen, you need players around you that can carry the load, create and find you - Trey, Nik, a healthy Caris, etc.
If we want to get back to Elite 8 or even Sweet 16 level, we need those players that can consistently lead you on a nightly basis. Irvin hasn’t been that guy this year (maybe due to the back surgery, playing the 4 against bigger players, missing FTs, or whatever the reason). Until we get that guy, I don’t see us being much more than a bubble team. Guys are being asked to start that simply put, are not starters in the big ten (if you want to hang banners).
Sknight, that’s exactly why I’ve been so vocal about the wrong direction this program is headed. We are landing bubble team talent and expecting sweet 16 or better results.
I think the talent is slightly better then you think. I think coach b is failing to put the right guys in and when out there in positions to succeed. Look how long it took him to realize maar should be a go to guy. I’ve been saying that for months along with you and a few others. I believe maar Dawkins Walton and Irvin should all get the same amount of looks/varied on who’s hot.
The guy above is right about Duncan. Bring him off the bench to shoot threes. His minutes should vary on his shit falling or not. I also feel if he had worked in wAgner and kam more that our bench would be much stronger right now. Kam is growing and I think could be a good rotation player for us. I believe Wagner would be there too if he hasn’t been coach bs whipping boy. A rotation of
Walton
Maar
Dawkins
Irvin
Donnall
With kam Wagner and Robinson off the bench could be dangerous. I truly believe that. If used properly too. Also I know some don’t Agree but spike and levert with this crew would have won many more games imo. Both can be very explosive and would have assured there would have been few poor shooting nights. Don’t underestimate how good and explosive a shooter spike could be. He has shown he can change games. He also was great at getting in the lane and dishing.
I actually would love to see some transfers and got spike to come back. Having him on the teAm would make us dangerous next year.
If you take our talent at an individual basis, I agree, it’s pretty good. Not sweet 16 good, but unquestioned NCAA team good.
However, this is a poorly recruited TEAM. The pieces do not fit and they didn’t fit when Caris was healthy. I unfortunately believe the pieces will not fit next year and sknight nailed the reasons why.
I don’t think Kam is ever going to be solid. He’s just not a good basketball player at this level. Irvin would be a good starting 3 in the big ten. At the 4 on this roster, he’s average to below average most nights. Dawkins and Duncan are not quality level starters for a big ten team but should have useful roles outside of that, if playibg on the right roster.
I want to see light at the end of the tunnel, but I just don’t. Landing Kyle Young would be a nice start. The beauty of CBB is it only takes 1 player to change everything.
I believe kam is going to turn this around. his shot looks improved. Even when he’s missed it looks on. I think he could help us a lot right now. He rebounds hustles and is a decent athlete. I Also believe he can pass and dribble. I think if he was given bigger minutes he could show everybody he can play.i had written him off but I watched him closely the last few appearances and I see a kid gaining confidence who could help us.
Also I obviously believe in Dawkins. I think he’s that dynamic of a shooter. I also believe he can run in transition and move solid without the ball. Back doors ect. He just needs to mentally step his game up and not defer and accept a bigger role like maar. We need his offense. Don’t give up on kam and Aubrey.
I truly believe it’s more how they have been used then the guys themselves. Obviously they hold some blame but I believe they have not been used properly and their roles miscAst.
Maybe part of it is their roles/they don’t fit well together but at the end of the day, there is no star here. No alpha that you can get the rock and let him do the work. For the most part, the teams that win the big ten have players that are in the running for big ten player of the year. We don’t have anyone at that level on this roster, and from what I’ve seen thus far, not on next years roster as well.
Trust me I hope I’m wrong. I understand Trey was just a 3 star that no one anticipated would lead this team to the national championship and be the ncaa player of the year. I’m rooting for all of our players and a lot of them do show flashes of being solid starters - MAAR, Zak, Walton, etc but they are not consistent enough to be even close to considered for big ten player of the year. hope they prove me wrong next year.
There’s no alpha for sure. My argument is that between those four we could win games with our balance. That’s why I’ve been arguing for more shots for Dawkins and maar for months. Instead of deferring to those two who are obviously inconsistent that the sophomores should have embraced more of a scoring role like last year. Between the four of them and donnall we should be a tough out on offense. We could be a tough defensive assignment between them all, as we could hurt you from all angles.
I think he means minus levert. Levert and spike really change our projection imo. Both can alter games. Would maar have ever stepped up without them. I’m not sure but he’s a hell of a problem off the bench. I’d actually have played levert at the three and started maar at the two probably. Still I feel we would have been a dangerous group with both.
Well he said we have no one on the roster right now that is a first team All Big Ten level player, which is wrong. We have LeVert. Not many teams have two first team All Big Ten level players at their disposal, so of course with LeVert out we are lacking that.