I’ve never “bashed” Howard or Manuel, really I’m just concerned about next years roster not worried beyond that. Hyland would be great but he has has grade issues and is going to VCU. There are no 2019 options beyond the guys were in on, there are few that havent signed an NLOI and probably even less are actually worth using a scholarship . Guys that Martelli was recruiting have already signed somewhere and cant just leave and commit somewhere else and they can’t even be recruited by the staff at this point due to ncaa rules. The options are Wagner, or Wilson as 2019s or a miracle late grad transfer or reclassification of a 2020 that’s ready to contribute next year both scenarios are highly unlikely. The chances the roster for next year is basically what we have now are high.
Took the words right out of my mouth, @YostsGhosts. I’ve enjoyed reading as many threads as I can keep up with, but I am amazed at the ripping of Manuel followed by Howard, then no staff or wrong staff. Can you imagine how it will ramp up when Howard finally announces recruits or transfers? Come on guys, things are starting to roll. Let’s all get on the bandwagon for a better-than-expected season, now! Neither Manuel, Howard, nor the new coaches created our situation. But they seem to be doing all they can to improve it, and quickly. Let’s Go Blue!
Edit: dropped preceding “constant” from “ripping” after re-reading.
You could make a good argument that the situation could have been potentially avoided by Manuel, had he tried. You could make the case that it might not have been the most-likely outcome that he could have kept Beilein here another year or two, but that it was very much worth it to at least try, and that it was also advisable to have a plan for if it happened that could have featured a little more respectful treatment of Michigan’s players and assistant coaches.
Conversely, it would be very difficult to make the case that instances like these are handled well by Michigan’s athletic department on a regular basis. There are no shortage of sources to read which provide painful descriptions of how the department has botched various coaching searches. Every full-time athletic director for the past 20 years has bothed a coaching search, so it’s far from crazy to think that pattern won’t continue now that this AD is making his first big hire.
I don’t think that’s doom-and-gloom stuff – it’s historical fact. It’s also easy to acknowledge that recent history whilst also at the same time feeling somewhat encouraged and excited for the future. Michigan ADs do not get it wrong every single time, and there’s a good argument for why this hire will be one of the minority that will be judged a success. But that’s still mostly speculation at this point – we’ll see when the recruits show up and the by the W-L record.
Manuel renegotiated Beilein’s contract after he flirted with the Pistons job. I’m sympathetic if he doesn’t think it’s right to keep doing that every time Beilein expresses an interest in the NBA. I’m not going to defend Michigan’s AD too much. Something seems off about how the assistants were handled although we lack details. Warde’s statements throughout the process struck me as unpolished. On the other hand, the nuts and bolts of the search seem fine. I have no complaints with the urgency he showed or with his hire.
Anyhow, I think it’s unfair to blame Manuel for Beilein’s departure. I’m not sure what he reasonably could have done to keep him. The reasons Beilein cited for leaving were beyond Michigan’s control and I can’t see Beilein waiting another year or two for the NBA. Would he really get another shot?
Are you trying to say that WM could have kept Beilein on as the coach if he would have tried?
Are you also saying that because other people have made bad hires in the past that we shouldn’t consider you doom and gloom because you’re assuming this is a bad hire? And if they have a bad W-L record in the first year of Howard’s tenure your speculation becomes fact?
I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to say, you have a very convoluted way of writing, but I think that I disagree with every point you tried to make.
Ugh. We are doing this again? The back and forth about Warde was by far the #1 most annoying thing about the coaching search.
The situation the players and assistants were in is completely on Beilein not Warde
Not sure how much I can do to help. As I said, “Michigan ADs do not get it wrong every single time, and there’s a good argument for why this hire will be one of the minority that will be judged a success.”
Can’t agree. Warde didn’t need Z and Teske coming to him to know that he should probably take the pulse of the roster and keep kids informed. It ought to be pretty clear that player-retention is key, and communicating with them would help in that regard. I get that a number of people feel that Beilein’s exit was a bit unBeilein, and I can see the reasons why. I wasn’t on the inside and don’t know, but it’s not hard to see how the AD could have been a bit more proactive about some elements of the search.
Warde was in contact with the guys on the roster the whole time
BQ’s coverage detailed that Z and Teske went to him and told him some players were jittery and could use a fuller update, so it seems doubtful the guys on the roster would agree with that. Not sure the point of you and me going back and forth on it when we’ve got that to go on, plus the further coverage of the chaotic first-day shock.
The timing and situation the program was in was on Beilein, I’m not sure how it could be viewed any other way.
Also I’m confused on how Warde could’ve been more “proactive” in his search can you give of example of what he should’ve done?
It seems sometime that we read entirely different reports or that we only hear what we choose to hear.
As it relates to what I’ve been able to discern from this conversation.
(1) The players have expressly said publicly that Manuel was n frequent contact with them throughout the search.
(2) Beilein was going to the pros as soon as the right offer came. He made that abundantly clear last year to Warde. Which also explains why there was no buyout in the contract that Beilein signed last year. The last thing Beilein wanted was to be caught up in an obligation to pay money to leave less than a year after he signed a contract knowing that leaving was a real possibility.
Differences in opinions are great but it a real challenge to follow discussions among people who are working from entirely different sets of facts.
I think we can agree or disagree on the wisdom of having a buyout in the contract – I’m sure that’s the last thing any coach wants but nonetheless they still sign the contracts – but some of the other stuff is abundantly clear and I agree there’s not much sense in arguing.
I think that says more about the positive leadership of the athletes UM has now, rather than any lack of leadership by the AD. I love that Z and Teske had the pulse of the team, and felt like they could communicate with Warde Manuel. Hopefully we’ll have the kind of player-led team this next season that Coach Beilein tried to foster, and that most coaches dream about.
I’ve had some pointed criticisms of Warde…specifically about not even replying to Beilein while in South Africa when Beilein said they should catch up.
In that light, it almost seems like Bruce Feldman is trolling us with this little nugget in an article on The Athletic about Josh Gattis:
The sense of urgency Harbaugh and AD Warde Manuel — who helped make the deal happen despite being out of town — displayed to Gattis a level of commitment that blew him away.
Anyway…even I’m ready to move on. What’s done is done, it doesn’t help us to dwell now. I can only hope that Warde will always be as proactive for basketball as he is for football.
I don’t know about whom it says more – that may be an eye-of-the-beholder kind of thing, and one data point to be considered along with others. And it’s possible for reasonable people to disagree. But I do think it’s fine and fair to highlight the positives, one of which is that they’re going into the season with great senior leadership. I think that’s a real and serious reason to feel very positive about the upcoming season, and have said so in a few threads here.
I wouldn’t call any of what I saw “ripping”. I would call it a difference of opinion. I think a couple of things (one being the search) could have been handled better by Manuel. I don’t think we want a cult of personality around either the AD or the head coach, do we? It would be rather boring here if everyone automatically agreed with every action that is taken, each decision that is made by the program.
Regarding the assistants, I think everyone, myself included, was eager (with some being perhaps a bit overanxious) to see a staff in place but I don’t recall (though I may be wrong) anyone actually bashing Howard for not getting it done sooner than he did. It happened fairly quickly.
As for “wrong staff”, some people (again, myself included) were very sorry to see Yaklich go, but a big part of the reason for that may have been the attraction of the associate head coach position, which he was not going to get here with Washington having seniority and Martelli bringing so much experience. I hope UM tried their best to keep Yaklich around. I’ve seen no indications about whether they did or did not, in which case I’m willing to assume the best. I think everyone was happy to see Washington retained and Martelli added to the staff. Similarly to Howard, I’m ambivalent about Eisley. Unlike the other two, they have no track record at this level, so I’m taking a wait-and-see approach while hoping for the best. I think Howard made good decisions regarding Washington and Martelli, and I’m pleased he quickly got in contact with Cole and his family to reassure them, and intends to visit Wilson as soon as he can.
As a palate cleanser, I saw Saddi and his son at a local big box store yesterday. My first thought was that I was glad that he doesn’t have to move his family. Sure, that’s the life of a coach and it’s what the family signs up for, but I’m glad for them nonetheless.
Also, he seems taller in person than I thought. According to everything I’ve read on this board, I’d have to estimate that he’s a foot taller than Beilein in shoes. (Had to reset the John Beilein height controversy for perhaps the last time.)
That is merging one situation into another, which have absolutely no basis to do so.
And forget about his intent to troll, it should be unsuccessful based on what we know. What we know is no matter how urgent Manuel could have been (whatever the f that is supposed to mean) no matter what amount of money or affection he could have shown, we know that Beilein was ghost. Any notion to the contrary ought to be rejected out of hand.
Do you know when and how his own staff found out? After he was gone. That screams to me.
Furthermore whether he is trolling turns on what he intended, not how you may have taken one matter to a different matter. The latter I don’t assign fault to the writer for because he can’t control how a reader might inappropriately construe what he wrote. At some point we can’t blame others for how we decide to respond to things or how they affect us.