Yep, Michigan’s ceiling was when Poole was at his best (early on). It’s downfall was when he was at his worst.
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I really want to know if Reegs, even in hindsight, would trade Jordan Poole for Ryan Cline.
As outlined in Dylans’ post from the time: On ball screens, Jordan Poole, Michigan's offense and the future | UM Hoops.com
As far as shot creation goes, he was insanely good in the non-con. Then he was bad for most of the season after that and that averaged out to him being an average-ish creater overall on the year. This was NOT a controversial thing to say at the time, lol.
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Yes no question because of roster fit. If you asked me about CJ Jackson then I’d probably just say eh, it wouldn’t matter either way.
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I absolutely agree. I was in attendance for the road game at Maryland, and his second half stint on the ball stands out in particular for me as what it was for most of conference play. Not efficient. Couldn’t wait for Simpson to get back in the game.
My recollection is Poole missed some 3’s and kept playing bad D and people got mad that shots that were going in stopped going in quite so much. So what became controversial was saying that missing 3’s is a thing that happens. And, again, seems very unlikely a team that good started somebody merely average. That list of Poole substitutes is way longer than mine would be.
Don’t have a great context for how to estimate players with your numbers. But it doesn’t seem that crazy here’s Torvik numbers for Michigan and OSU:
https://barttorvik.com/team.php?year=2019&team=Ohio+St.
I believe PPRG is all offense, so estimating that Jordan’s defense is gonna cause him lag to around the level of someone like CJ Jackson isn’t that crazy considering the offensive difference between the two is not that big. Michigan having 3 elite defenders plus a really valuable 6th man did a lot there. I’d also argue that any of these advanced stats are gonna massively underrate Simpson’s offensive value and transfer it to other players.
Edit: Also Torvik thinks that Ryan Kline was way better than Poole.
PORPAGATU is just ORTG * minutes w/ a conversion of points to wins, is my understanding. So whether you take Torvik especially seriously is how much you like ORTG.
EDIT: actually i don’t think it converts to wins?
Same here. But this is a both can be true, IMO. He’s a hard one to put in just the right perspective. If I hadn’t overloaded on puns in another thread I would here, now, offer a slight tweak to the spelling of the word “polarizing”. One thing for sure is that Poole has his legacy here and flies our flag well as a program alumni. I’m very thankful for his time here even if the memories are the very definition of bittersweet.
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The doc says it adjusts for Usage as well.
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the acronym is something like Points above replacement at the same usage or something, right?
So yeah, it should smooth the gap between high-usage/low efficiency and low-usage/high efficiency
I mean, we are talking about the same CJ Jackson right?
You can’t just lump guys together by some rough grouping of ORtg and Usage and say they are basically the same thing when they play different roles, play on different levels of teams, etc.
What are y’alls thoughts about Johnny Davis? I’m not sure how hurt he was at the end of the year but do you think his late season struggles have led to him getting slept on?
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Yeah I mean, I’d need a lot more to be convinced by Torvik’s thing. Whenever I’ve read his stuff, it all feels very fudged. My feeling is starting from AdjEM and squinting at stat lines is at least as valid.
My sample size might have too much Eli getting burned by very slow developing post turnarounds that probably don’t translate in the nba, so I don’t know.
Just because he’s the guy I see Moussa resembling the most, I think we’ve seen that this is the type of Center that tends to exist on title teams these days (a reminder Giannis played most of the center minutes in the finals last year). This is an NBA center switched onto an all-star shooting guard.
I think by and large what we’re seeing is that it’s really hard to win late in the playoffs playing drop coverages - the Bucks had to sit Lopez and play Giannis/Tucker at the 4/5 to switch, the Lakers would start a drop center but transition to Davis at C, the Raptors did it about 1/2 the game when Gasol sat, the Warriors have the small ball lineup with Draymond at C, etc.
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It’s incredible. Also brings me back to people whining that the centers for Team USA this summer were Bam and Draymond so much so they brought on Javale McGee when Beal got COVID (who rarely ended up playing)
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Now that’s revisionist. He wasn’t. He was occasionally good and frequently sucked. Maybe his stats averaged out ok, but he was far from a key player on the team. Everyone was shocked when he declared. I know I was. The GSW Poole is somebody I don’t even recognize.
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lol yeah. Michigan Poole is fuggin Magikarp to NBA Poole’s Gyrados. Not even the same species of marine life.
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The last time Dan Dakich was right about something was in 2019 when he called Poole the best prospect in the conference.
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