Yeah my comment was separate from the other discussion happening lol. Was mostly expanding on a take I agreed with.
Sounds fair to me, wolverheel. Inherent limitations of toneless conversation on the Web.
Hereās my take on this.
John Beilein did the heavy lifting. When he took over, we hadnāt made the tourney for nine years, our facilities were poor, and he inherited a roster which included guys like Kendrick Price, Reed Baker, Ron Coleman, KāLen Morris, Jarrett Smith, Jevon Shepard, and Anthony Wright.
I probably donāt need to recite everything JB has accomplished since 2012. We all know it. Michigan is back squarely on the map.
Thatās the program Juwan is taking over. Itās in great shape.
JB had his own unique way of doing things. Objectively, his recruiting - measured by things like wins, college production, and NBA draft picks - was still very good.
But it is true that many of his star players were guys who were completely overlooked. I mean, if OSU had wanted Trey Burke, heās not coming to Michigan. The same is probably true for Caris and X, two more Ohio kids. GRIII was ranked in the 100s when he committed. Duncan Robinson was a D3 player. Mo Wagner was a recruit from Germany.
We did win some recruiting battles (Walton, Livers, Teske, Johns, McGary, Chatman), but by and large, we landed players who were talented enough to play for the blue bloods, but overlooked by them.
Obviously, JB had several recruiting filters he used. He wanted transcripts and the full campus tour before he offered. He would not offer rising juniors until June 15th. He wanted kids who were ābeating down the doorā to come to Michigan, and he spoke of unpacking your bags for four years. These are all great filters for ensuring you have a strong culture.
But in terms of landing elite talent, it probably hindered us a bit.
Enter Juwan. People at all levels - and especially in the NBA - seem to really like and respect him. He has tons of NBA relationships, he knows the AAU scene since he was an elite recruit himself not THAT long ago, and his kids play high level AAU ball. And people remember the Fab Five. I think his personality and approach is going to really resonate with recruits.
I donāt expect us to follow a Duke or Kentucky path. But I do think weāll have a shot with more five star kids, and Iāll bet our big man recruiting takes off a little more now too.
Hereās the type of 2020 class I think Juwan is capable of landing. There are probably no for sure one and done kids on this list, but it would be a great class: Zeb Jackson, Adam Miller, one of Burnett or Abdur-Rahim, Scooby Johnson, Isaiah Jackson.
I donāt expect Juwan to be as good with the Xs and Os as JB (few are), but I think he going to prove more adept than most people think, and I think heās got incredible potential as a recruiter. And no, I donāt believe heāll need to cut corners to land really good players.
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Great post, LA.
Agree on all points.
Recruiting- That middle ground of not all 5* kids but entire classes in the top 20-80, consistently, is more then achievable.
My class-
Zeb Jackson
Adam Miller
JAR
Isaiah Jackson
Another big.
Iām curious on what the 4 man will look like under Coach Howard. That will dictate a lot, imo.
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I honestly think Scottie Barnes will be in play. Heās a monster as a point forward. Elite passer and defender and at least 6ā8. Plays with a passion that would make Draymond Green proud. Really like how he plays. Has literally everything but a consistent jumper. Kind of similar to Jalen Johnson. Both are 6ā8+ and elite playmakers. Barnesā handles are really good for his size too. Adam Miller, DJ Steward, Zeb, Nimari Burnett, Isaiah Jackson and Scooby will all be 2020s I think people will are linked with Michigan going forward. Maybe Cade Cunningham as well. He said this weekend he is planning on release a list of schools in June. If Michigan survived the cut despite losing Beilein, thatād be an encouraging sign.
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The 4 spot will be an interesting one to watch; the days of the 3 & 4 being the same just opposite sides of the court are likely over?
Also interested to see the 5 spot ā in Beileinās system there was no/minimal post play from the 5 spot. Basketball in general is moving away from post play, but will Howardās vision for big men refocus on any post presence? Beileinās system also placed a lower emphasis on offensive rebounding; does Howard look for some guys who can compete more on the offensive glass?
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Very good post, beilein was simply not a big relationship guy. I honestly think you saw that in beileins recruiting, almost all of the kids he went after had really strong support systems and approached their decisions like business decisions. IMO juwan will be just the opposite, heāll be a huge relationship guy and not be afraid to go after kids who donāt have strong parental guidance. Josh Jackson and miles bridges were prospects like that and beilein barely recruited them. IMO juwan would have been all over them.
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āthugsā is far too loaded a term to use in the context of basketball recruiting
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Not sure thatās true; I think Beilein was just a different relationship coach. He wasnāt a guy who would play the games to nab Top10 talent, wouldnāt do what it took to build the relationships with AAU coaches or side handlers of players. But, as one example, look at the relationship he built and followed through on with Austin Hatch. Different types of relationship building. Coach Beilein had his quirks and his weaknesses, no doubt, but I think a lot of the āshadeā thrown his way was from HS coaches or wanna-be handlers who didnāt get the ego-stroking they wanted from a high major coach?
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My apologies. Didnāt mean anything offensive by it and probably because of my ignorance. I will edit the post.
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I think others have said it, but he was more the ālovable grandpaā than the guy whoās gonna act as a substitute father figure for the kids.
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Beileinās entire approach actually focused on building relationships with the recruits before they committed. The idea was to make sure they fit one another.
I have seen coaches who are not as good as JB at Xās and Oās or at developing players win Nat Championships. I think Juwan Howard has every chance to take this program to great levels. He needs to recruit key players and develop them. I think he can do that. When you have great talent playing as a team, they can do great things. While I believe Beilien was a once in a lifetime type of coach, I do think there are areas of coaching that Juwan can actually do better than JB. There will be areas that he wonāt be as good as JB. A lot of unknowns.
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Why do you think Barnes will be in play?
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I donāt think itās fair to say JB was not a ārelationship guy.ā I think most of his players like and respect him a lot.
I do think itās accurate to say he wasnāt going to chase guys, or spend a lot of time trying to persuade them Michigan was the place for them. If they werenāt feeling it from the outset, he would find guys who were.
I do think, though, that because he went through this whole process, Juwan will have insight most coaches just donāt.
Josh Jackson? If there was ever a recruit who was bought and paid for, itās him. Apples wanted the best deal out there. Iām pretty confident Juwan would not waste his time on that one, either.
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Nightrydas is the same AAU program Juwanās youngest Jett plays for. Jett is on 15u. Scottie, Jett and Jace also play for University School together and are friends. I imagine Juwan and the family know Scottieās family since they go to high school together. Would make zero sense for Juwan to not at least take a crack at going after him.
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Recruiting is a game in and off it self. Beilein was a guy that really didnāt have a lot of time for games. He wanted guys, would give them space to figure things out, and when it was time for a decision, he wanted a commitment or it was time to move on.
I think Juwan needs to mix his cool factor with his business type demeanor.
I actually liked that Beilein didnāt pathetically kiss the asses of most of these loser wannabe coaches that sometimes have way too much say in recruitments.
I think Juwan might be able to relate more to recruits and maybe connect to them in a way that Beilein didnāt. You are correct in saying that Beilein is a once in a lifetime coach. He developed players that had Michigan on a list with Duke and Kentucky in terms of first round picks.
I think Juwan can be an excellent coach, and the possibility of him bringing in high caliber talent can help him develop his craft on the fly.
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Well stated! Iām excited to see how this all plays out on the court. The mix of recruiting and coaching makes this a great challenge for any new coach. Most top 50 kids think theyāre ā1 and doneā, and to me this is the biggest hurdle. Getting the kids to stay focused on college hoops and play aggressive. So many kids are playing not to get hurt, and I canāt blame them. Lots of money on the line. Juwan will find the right mix, it just might take time but he has a great foundation.
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I think there are two things to discuss when talking recruiting. The first is ādoes he land highly rated recruits?ā. Beilein got some (McGary, Robinson, Chatman probably being the biggest) but with a few exceptions his 3+ man classes generally have landed in the 30s or 40s in the national ranks. So maybe his recruiting didnāt bring in talent from this regard.
But then you look at guys like Stauskas, Levert, Burke, Wagner, Wilson - who, best case, were ranked nationally in the 90s (Stauskas), who played to first round or even lottery level and without exception were better college players than that group of three major recruits (excepting a 12 game run from McGary). Hell, Iād take Rahkman over Robinson and Zak Irvin.
Beilein EXCELLED at finding good players. They just didnāt always carry national attention until they rolled heads.
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Generally agree, although if you compare MAAR as a sophomore with GRIII as a sophomore (his last year here), thatās a no-brainer for GRIII.
If youāre comparing āwhole career versus whole career,ā Glenn was part of a team that reached the title game and then the Elite Eight, whereas we struggled in MAARās first two years before making the Sweet Sixteen his junior year (where he scored 2 points in 38 minutes against Oregon) and the title game his senior year. Iād give the career edge to GRIII, too.
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