- Livers has about 30 pounds on him right now lol
We think Livers is 30lbs bigger than Johns? I’d be shocked if they are listed at weights 30 lbs apart next year.
I think people are underestimating Johns size. Livers is bigger (weight wise) but there is no way Livers is 30lbs bigger than Johns.
I’m just curious where the 30lbs thing is coming from?
Livers being listed at 230 on our official roster and Brandon Johns being listed at, oops, 205, on his recruiting profile (was 200 when I checked awhile ago). So I guess not 30. Johns obviously will be closer to 215 next season because college strength program and stuff, but I’d assume if Beilein expects Livers to play actual minutes at the 5 he’ll have him bulk up more too.
Last measurement I can find on Johns was two years ago at a Nike camp at 215. He’s gotten stronger since, I highly doubt that he’s going to be listed around 200 on next year’s roster.
Well yeah, I said he’ll probably be around 215. But again, if Livers is expected to play the 5 for more than just “2 minutes at the end of a blowout” minutes I’m guessing he’ll bulk up too.
FWIW, I moved from Lansing to Kalamazoo during Livers’ senior year at Kalamazoo Central and I got to see them both in high school a decent amount of games.
Johns was much more perimeter oriented attacking closeouts and often primary handling. Livers was not at all a back to the basket type but he seemed much more natural without the ball in his hands and more willing to bang down low than Johns.
Obviously their games can grow and a lot has changed, but I would guess Livers is a much more natural option at the 5, and that’s before considering the “freshman learning 2 positions” hurdle also.
Who are you more scared of in a pick-and-pop? Livers or Johns? (My answer is Johns)
Either way, if Michigan goes small the equation will be different on offense and defense. Play Livers, Johns and Ignas together at the 3/4/5 and switch everything defensively. None of those 3 would be particularly effective defending one-on-one against traditional post players, but you can switch every ball screen and do some different stuff. It would be very matchup dependent.
On offense, attack whatever mismatch there is. Other teams will have to basically put their 5 on a perimeter player.
Johns by far more natural in the pick and pop. But I think Livers could be capable if that’s a point of emphasis this off season and I trust his shot.
Great point on the switch everything. That’s going to be so fun to watch play out. One thing in Livers’ favor though is that he stepped in and was a high level impact defender from day one of his freshman season. I’m not sure I expect Johns or Iggy to be the same, at least not right away.
pick and pop - Johns
pick and roll - Livers… I just envision a JMo dive but Livers also having the ability flare every once in a while for a pop
I don’t know. I felt like Livers shot was there he just rushed it. I think he’s going to show out next year with his range.
Seems like a lot of people are very high on Livers for next year.
I’m not sure I’m all the way ther. What does he do best? Where does he excel?
I’m not down on him but just unsure what people expect from him that are very high on him.
I am with you Dylan. Livers never showed anything on offense except for his short lived hot streak from 3, which were all wide open. His defense was good but prone to freshman mistakes there as well. Not that that means he’s never going to do anything, but if he doesn’t improve Iggy and Johns are gonna pass him by.
I personally love the idea of going small next year, I think it could be a matchup nightmare. And having Simpson and Matthews defensively gives us outstanding perimeter defense to the point where you can live a little with what we might give up defensively in the post by going small.
As for the Livers/Johns debate… I don’t think the size thing matters offensively, I think it just comes down to best fit. I personally like Livers at the 5 and Johns at the 4 if we go small. I think Johns is better creating his own opportunities and maybe a little more fluid than Livers is. I also feel like Johns would be better off the dribble than Livers. So give me Johns at the 4 creating some for himself and Livers at the 5 where everything is created for you off the pick and pop and pick and roll. Defensively it doesn’t matter who the 4 and 5 are on offense, you can matchup how you want on that end.
That’s why I think he might be the ideal small by 5 with Johns at the 4. As the 5 he would have a lot of opportunities created for himself. I’m not sure he’s a 40% shooter from outside like Moe but I feel like he can be close to that and might be better on the dive/slip to the basket than Moe ever was.
Okay. So he had one strong pick and pop drive past a recovering Matt Haarms.
Yes the one play all year that Livers took it off the bounce and attacked the rim with authority. I think he has that in him and the handle to become consistent. But walking in the door Iggy will be better at it than Livers and Johns ability to shoot off the dribble I think will be superior. Look, this is a nice problem to have and we have the best coach to take advantage of it. I am hoping Livers makes it hard for the freshman to leap frog him. As I have stated before the combo forward position will be the strongest/deepest position on the team.
I think there may be some residual DJ Wilson hype altering my perception of Livers. I think Livers looked miles better as a freshman and played his role incredibly well. Imagining a leap like Wilson took doesn’t seem too far out of the equation, at least offensively.