2017 - F - Isaiah Livers (Commit)



We might need MAAR to play point guard. It depends of how X is progressing and whether Brookes is ready to go.


Maar has struggled and I’m his main proponent on here but don’t sleep on him. He will still be very good/ valuable for us. I think a lot of its mentality. Once Walton and Irvin move on I think you will see him really step up. Once he knows mentally its his time. Wish he’d do it sooner. He showed briefly when he attacked like five straight plays to keep us involved. Honestly why can’t he play point? It’s not like Walton is doing anything major out there creating wise. Maar could fill that roll as a score first point who just brings it up and swings it.


Anybody else think it looked like Livers was playing some point-forward? Not thinking that he will likely do the same in college, but that’s a promising skill-set to have, even at the high school level. That highlight tape, ‘highlight-ness’ caveats applied, really look promising for Livers’ fit as a Beilein 4. It’d be great if he could both learn from and push DJ.


Well, the past 2 seasons he played some PG when Walton was hurt. So, can he play the PG in Beilein’s system, yes; can he play the PG position well enough for the team to have success, probably not ---- at least not in large doses. And not at the level he’s playing thus far in 2016-17.


Hmmm, interesting. I know you can’t really elaborate, so I won’t ask why. Seems like a nice pick up for us.

By the way, that recent film you had on Livers was impressive. Seems like maybe he’s going to be better than anticipated?


If what I witnessed that day from Livers is a consistent part of his game moving forward then he is a legit 75ish type player.

He told me he put in a ton of work on his ball handling during late summer/fall and it showed


Good to hear.

Are you feeling more bullish on the future if the 2017 and 2018 kids stay 3-4 years?

You gotta admit Wagner and especially Wilson have exceeded your expectations, no?


Wilson is an interesting one because while he’s turned into a productive player as a junior, he was invisible for his first two years in the program. It’s hard to become a really good program if you can’t land kids who can contribute as a freshman or a sophomore. I guess better late than never is appropriate here.


Well, to be fair, his freshman year was cut short after just a few games by injury.

There are a lot of ways to build a program. Teams like Nova, Butler, UVA, Gonzaga, ND, and Wisconsin have been pretty successful with guys who stay 3-4 years. Really, when we recruited guys like Burke, GR3, and Nik, we didn’t think they were only two year players. Sure, the easiest and most foolproof plan is to recruit the absolute best talent out there, but the competition for those kids is fierce.


Not really, this team sorely needs an NBA type guard/wing that is a triple threat…to create off the dribble and finish at the rim, hit the outside shot, or find the open teammate. Until we find that type of player, we are essentially a bubble/bubble+ type team in my opinion.

I think we’ll be a bubble/bubble+ team both this year and next, provided we don’t land Mo Bamba or another prospect with similar impact. I think we might actually make some progress starting in 18-19 though.

Can’t say that Wilson exceeded my expectations, I have always maintained it would take him until at least his third year to contribute. Even now, we’re talking about a garbage man on offense, that is a good rebounder (although inconsistent) and shotblocker. That said, I’ll take that from DJ based on his first 2 years where he had nowhere to go but up.

Wagner has definitely exceeded my expectation level, he’s a very nice offensive player. Long ways to go on defense, and rebounding in particular, but offensively he’s certainly impressed. If someone told me he’d be averaging 11.5ppg as a sophomore, even though half the opponents have been cupcakes, no way I would’ve bought that.


I think Poole and Mathews have the potential to be NBA caliber players on the wing.

DJ is a little more than just a garbage guy on offense. He hits some threes on occasion.

I agree the competition hasn’t been elite, but Mo did have a big game against UCLA, to me showing the capability to step up against better teams.

The key next year, I think, is what we have at PG. Hard to say right now. But I like Poole and Mathews a lot, and I think DJ and Mo will only continue to improve. One nice thing is that with Donlon, we now finally play a little defense.

By the way, while it’s early, can’t say Langford has impressed me that much. I’m sure he’ll be very good at some point, but he seems like a three year player at the moment.


I’ll toot my own horn a bit here, and I think a decent portion of folks here agreed, so they to can toot…but the staff passing on Seth Towns for Ibi Watson is going to sting for a while.

Next years squad plus a sophomore Towns would’ve been a team that is reasonably improved.

We’re going to have to sign instant impact freshmen if we’re going to get back to being more than a bubble team. Development is great, but the transition cost of the 2-3 years it takes is simply too great if the vast majority of the roster is composed of developmental projects.

With regard to Langford, I think your view has some merit, but keep in mind he’s only playing 17mpg, so opportunity has been limited. Even with that, Nick Watd has surpassed all expectations, so it’s basically a wash. That is the benefit of recruiting talent over fit…the hit rate is simply going to be much higher in most cases.


Towns committed to Harvard several weeks before Michigan offered Watson. Generally speaking, they may have viewed the recruitments as separate - guards vs forwards. If anything, the staff may have seen Wagner’s commitment as taking Towns’s spot even though they were different years (Mo committed a coupe months before Towns did). Some people here were very down on Wagner and thought they should’ve kept that spot open for Towns.


U think we’re a bubble team? I don’t see that. Then again it’s hard to say after watching our offense in the second half of yesterday’s game. If they all stand around while zak dribbles we’re screwed.

I still think we are a lock to get in the tourney and that we have nice potential.

I’m also surprised your down on next years team. I really think their going to be quite good.


Most people that aren’t being an extreme homer can see some potential trouble spots. Who are they running offense through next year? Nothing but question marks in that regard.


I think the only real question mark is x/ Brooks at the point. If he or someone comes through for us then we will be improved imo. You run the offense with Wagner as focal point. on the outside you hit them with maar and Mathews. I trust that both will put the ball in the hoop. Then Duncan obviously. Wilson will make another leap imo on offense. I think he’s only scratched their surface of his offensive game. A really nice balanced attack, which we see at times this year.

I also think it will be addition by subtraction on some level losing zak and Derek. Although I like Derek I think the rest of the guys don’t get the touches they need/ aren’t aggressive enough because of their roles so we don’t see their full abilities yet of what they can accomplish. I really think they will step into the roles as go to’s / leaders well and Michigan will be better for it.


X hasn’t had much run, but hasn’t exactly shown that he is someone that will be ready to have offense run through him. Matthews hasn’t proved it and MAAR has regressed by a steep margin.


I got faith in the wings. I’m worried about x but then again we haven’t seen him.


I stopped by Kalamazoo Central’s game tonight to check out Livers for the first time this season. The game started about an hour late so I had to leave early but here’s some general thoughts:

The opponent (Oak Park) ran a 2-3 zone and a press, Livers floated on the perimeter pretty much the entire time in the half court. That being said, he was a very willing and smart passer, looked good off the catch and shoot and had a good touch around the rim off drop offs. I’d venture to say he looks like the best combination of size, athleticism and skill that I can remember JB recruiting at the 4 spot other than GR3. I think he could step right in and be a good floor spacer and finisher from day one.

Defensively, he wasn’t much of a force on the boards but did have a couple nice blocks. The game was also bogged down by 17(!) first quarter fouls by the two teams combined. The last time I saw Livers was two years ago and he definitely looks to have added a better handle and filled out nicely to his size. Overall, I’m pretty excited after seeing him in person mostly because he seems like a very smart, skilled player with some natural athleticism and size that we usually don’t get with those types of skill guys.


I think he must have started hitting the boards after you left…