Question #1:
Does Michigan have more than 50% chance landing Leaf?
Question #2:
Does any other school have more chance landing Leaf than Michigan?
Even the answer to the first question is NO, the answer of Question #2 is not necessarily YES.
Chatman picked us over AZ, McGary picked us over Duke and Fla, Irvin picked us over IU (his instate school) (not to mention BillyDâs failed efforts to poach THJr). Those are Leafâs other finalists, right? Are those formidable schools in recruiting? Sure. Do they beat us sometimes? Sure. (Kennard, Blackmon, Prather come immediately to mind.) We do pretty well against big time schools. If you only like sure things, recruiting is probably not for you, no matter what school you follow. If you like great success with a fun team and good people and good recruiting, UM hoops is a great team at the moment.
Guys, seriously, this doesnât have to turn into a âstate of the programâ debateâŚthe reality is weâre dealing heavy competition from a few powerhouses in the recruitment for Mr. Leafâs services. We donât have to make it more than what it isâŚthe odds simply arenât in our favor when we have to battle these type of programs based recent history. Do we have a shot, sure we do, do we have a good shot, probably not. Time will tell.
They were wrong about Chatman to UA, but other than that this site has been reliable
Arizona and Florida the teams to beat for TJ Leaf. Decision not that far off.
â Point Guard U (@UofAPointGuardU) October 22, 2014
MattD - except that we beat out Arizona for Chatman, and Duke (among other âeliteâ programs like Florida and UK) for McGary. Itâs hardly the case that we should simply back up our bags and go home if Duke, UK, or any other school is interested.
From what I recall, the only recent head-to-head recruit weâve lost to Duke is Kennard, and to Kentucky, we lost Booker. And again, with Booker, at this time last year he was looking at a 2014 Michigan team that was going to feature Stauskas, Levert and Irvin at the wing. If he knew Stauskas would be good enough to leave, and the Harrisons would be bad enough they would stay, I have to think he might have gone a different direction.
Realistically, yes, Duke and UK are going to beat us out for most recruits. Thatâs true for just about any other school, too.
Chazer - the 2 don't have to be mutually exclusive, a coach can assemble talent and a team at the same time. And, quite frankly, those are the coaches that experience the most success.
Really?! Huh.
Guys, seriously, this doesn't have to turn into a "state of the program" debate.....the reality is we're dealing heavy competition from a few powerhouses in the recruitment for Mr. Leaf's services. We don't have to make it more than what it is.....................the odds simply aren't in our favor when we have to battle these type of programs based recent history. Do we have a shot, sure we do, do we have a good shot, probably not. Time will tell.
Itâs true, we donât have to make it more than what it is. Weâre in a good position for another great recruit, who also has offers from other great schools, just like the vast majority of our players and recruits. We can all agree to leave at that, right?
No, I donât agree weâre in good position for TJ LeafâŚIâll leave it at that.
They were wrong about Chatman to UA, but other than that this site has been reliableArizona and Florida the teams to beat for TJ Leaf. Decision not that far off.
â Point Guard U (@UofAPointGuardU) October 22, 2014
This is interesting, only because Leaf recently said he wasnât gonna commit until next year. If he does commit this year, all signs definitely point to UA, the presumed leader at this point.
No, I don't agree we're in good position for TJ Leaf........I'll leave it at that.
If you could leave it at that from the outset, without attempting to show that UM always loses recruits to everybody whose anybody in college hoops, we could all be more productive.
No, I don't agree we're in good position for TJ Leaf........I'll leave it at that.If you could leave it at that from the outset, without attempting to show that UM always loses recruits to everybody whose anybody in college hoops, we could all be more productive.
This has to be a joke right? Go read my original post regarding LeafâŚliterally a one liner that said Leaf to UM not looking good. I never said anything about UM losing recruits to anybody initially. Letâs face it, the majority of posters here simply donât want to read anything not perceived to be pro UM or in UMs favor. I think you would be a lot more productive if you actually read my posts rather than attempting to single me out on the basis of my viewpoint.
So we are not in a good position with Leaf, you donât feel good about Towns, DTJR is a Kentucky or Duke lean, Battle isnât coming (that I agree with), Goodin doesnât like us much anymore, Dozier will stay close to home for SCâŚ
Basically your saying our recruiting to this point has no positive results coming?
So we are not in a good position with Leaf, you donât feel good about Towns, DTJR is a Kentucky or Duke lean, Battle isnât coming (that I agree with), Goodin doesnât like us much anymore, Dozier will stay close to home for SCâŚ
Basically your saying our recruiting to this point has no positive results coming?
So we are not in a good position with Leaf, you don't feel good about Towns, DTJR is a Kentucky or Duke lean, Battle isn't coming (that I agree with), Goodin doesn't like us much anymore, Dozier will stay close to home for SC....Basically your saying our recruiting to this point has no positive results coming?
Didnât say that, we already have Teske in the fold, which is a great pickup in my opinion. I think we are certainly in the top group for DT, but not necessarily his outright leader. I think weâre in decent position with TownsâŚand perhaps RamseyâŚthose are the recruits I feel we have a decent shot with at this point. I remember a few months back I told everyone Battle wasnât coming and everybody jumped down my throat for saying it was too early to make such a claimâŚonly to have it be common knowledge today.
To add to my post above, if we can simply add to Teske with either DT/Ramsey, I think that is a really, really nice class. With a junior MAAR, Kam, and all junior/senior bigs, that 16 team would have a chance to be great, and even better if we can get Kam and MAAR to stick around for 4 years.
I will agree with you Matt that I think with Teske in the fold, the only piece needed to make that class excellent is an excellent PG. Obviously DT is my preference. Do not feel TJ is a required piece to be a great class, but would be great in our system. Also still would like to think we have a shot with Towns at this point. A Dozier or Langford commitment would be a cherry on top so to speak.
Iâve said this before in passingâŚbut I think Leaf is a bit overrated. No doubt a good player, but I donât see him as an impact player that can single handedly take your team from average to good, or good to great. DT is that good. Can anyone honestly say that Leaf is a top 15 player, while Towns is 80-100âŚI donât think there is that big of a discrepancy. All that to say, if we donât get Leaf, so be itâŚweâll be just fine without him in my opinion.
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No, I donât agree weâre in good position for TJ LeafâŚIâll leave it at that.If you could leave it at that from the outset, without attempting to show that UM always loses recruits to everybody whose anybody in college hoops, we could all be more productive.
This has to be a joke right? Go read my original post regarding LeafâŚliterally a one liner that said Leaf to UM not looking good. I never said anything about UM losing recruits to anybody initially. Letâs face it, the majority of posters here simply donât want to read anything not perceived to be pro UM or in UMs favor. I think you would be a lot more productive if you actually read my posts rather than attempting to single me out on the basis of my viewpoint.
MattD, perhaps youâre really not aware of your posting tendencies, but you post over and over again how UM is not Duke and UK and how we canât go up against these guys, etc. For example, here are just a couple of your posts from this thread alone - the ones you apparently referenced in your âoriginal postâ:
âGenerally speaking, prolonged recruitments donât go well for us. I think we may have courted Irvin for a while and maintained as the frontrunner throughout, but other than that I canât really think of any. We seem to be the placeholder/leverage for a number of recruitsâ
âI just think UM is a placeholder for many kids until they get better offers. If we continue to go deep in March, that will be fixed, but we need at least 2 more consecutive years in my opinion before it truly pays off - essentially we need kids to view UM as an established program during their middle school years rather than being the new kid on the block when they are sophmores-seniorsâ
I and I believe most posters are comfortable hearing recruiting news that ways against UMâs chances. I and I believe most posters are aware that Duke and UK and others are formidable schools whose presence in a recruitment may decrease UMâs chances. However, I and I believe most posters are pretty happy with UMâs performance and overall recruiting the past few years, we come here as fans of the team and folks who appreciate the UM Hoops site, and itâs annoying and tiring to read repetitive, ubiquitous denigration of the coaches, players, and program. Itâs simply not fun, and thatâs what we generally are here to do. Unfortunately, Iâm just going to have to ignore your posts from now on. Iâm not going to read them and wonât respond.
First off, did it escape you when I stated âgo look at my original post rearding Leafâ?
So, in essence what youâre doing is utilizing past material that you view as âdenigration of the coaches, players, and programâ and applying it to the Leaf recruitment, rather than focusing on my specific posts regarding the same. My initial post on Leaf was simply âLeaf to UM looking goodââŚplease explain to me how that statement in itelf âdenigratingâ?
So if you want to speak in general terms, then fine, you wonât get any backlash from me. But donât attempt to paint the narrative that I proclaimed that UM loses every recruiting battle in the specific context of the Leaf recruitment post that I made yesterdayâŚI intentionally resricted the post to Leaf without making reference to a âstate of the programâ type commentary just to prevent this type of dialogue (see my this doesnât have to be a âstate of the program debateâ post subsequently made after my initial post).
Once again, nothing more than backlash based on viewpoint. Personally, I think the repetitive bolstering/overrating of UM basketball is annoying, and I think itâs vomit inducing rather than fun. I think fun is having serious basketball debate that is objective through emperical data rather than having dialogue from a âfanâsâ standpoint. I donât like cheeringâŚthere are only so many ways you can say UM is awesome.
So, to bring this to a close, if you donât agree with me on a given topicâŚprovide some objective and logical reasoning as to why, rather than this âwell weâre winning, so why are you complainingââŚthatâs a copout that often means I donât have any objective reasoning to refute this individual/specific contention, but winning is what I fall back on. Evaluate each move for what it is rather than having this catch-all of winning.
Can we stop with the MattD bashing, please? Geez, the dude has an opinion, agree or disagree and leave it there.
Is he completely unjustified in feeling we are at a disadvantage in competing for recruits against the UK and Dukes of college basketball? I donât think he his. Would everything be more rainbows and sunshine if he didnât reference that opinion? Sure it would, but seriously just relax. Itâs an internet message board, lots of opinions, some you will agree with and some you wonât.
And when it comes down to it, this board is full of adults arguing over the whims of kids. Admittedly my kids are both under the age of 4, but I donât pretend to know what theyâre going to do tomorrow, let alone next year. Is it more likely they go to Michigan than not? Maybe, but all I can guarantee is exposure to my alma mater, not their desire to attend.