I think this explains in large part some our recent recruiting woes. I know some say we’re an NBA factory, but on the aggregate we really aren’t. I think NBA players out of a given school have to be high profile in order to really have an impact in recruiting. For example, Manny Harris and Darius Morris being in the NBA doesn’t really do anything to sway a recruit’s opinion in my view. The Derrick Roses and Cousins of the world are much more recognizable. So we may have some former UM players in the league, but how many are really recognized other than Jamal Crawford?
2014-15 NBA roster survey: 19 players from Kentucky, most of any school followed by Duke (18), Kansas (17), North Carolina (16), UCLA (15).
I think this explains in large part some our recent recruiting woes. I know some say we're an NBA factory, but on the aggregate we really aren't. I think NBA players out of a given school have to be high profile in order to really have an impact in recruiting. For example, Manny Harris and Darius Morris being in the NBA doesn't really do anything to sway a recruit's opinion in my view. The Derrick Roses and Cousins of the world are much more recognizable. So we may have some former UM players in the league, but how many are really recognized other than Jamal Crawford?
2014-15 NBA roster survey: 19 players from Kentucky, most of any school followed by Duke (18), Kansas (17), North Carolina (16), UCLA (15).
I’m a bit shocked you think Derrick Rose carries more clout than Darius Morris haha
BUT at least we have a lot more easily recognizable development with 2 lottery picks in the last 2 seasons…along with some solid 1st rounders in THj and Mitch and soon to be Levert.
Dozier will not make announcement Saturday per local reporter in SC; hopefully that is a good sign that he’s having second thoughts on his top 3 excluding UM
According to Perry Dozier Sr., his son - Spring Valley guard PJ Dozier will not have an announcement on his college choice on Saturday.
Well, unfortunately, I can think of a whole lot of other reasons that he might delay his decision that have nothing to do with us at all. I think we’d be better off to have him decide sooner, rather than later, so that we can explore other options if he doesn’t pick us. I’d hate to be left holding the bag on signing day.
Let’s put it this way, I think it is VERY doubtful Dozier chooses UM, but it’s worth the wait when the only other prospect on your board isn’t deciding until April.
Of course we are far from an “NBA factory.” But, MattD, you are the guy who always says the past is irrelevant. In the last two drafts, we’ve had Burke and Stauskas go in the lottery, Mitch and Tim go in the first round, and Glenn in the second. And Caris likely becomes a first rounder this year. That’s pretty good, along with Burke being national player of the year.
I assume, once the next wave hits (hopefully Caris, Irvin, Walton, Chatman) that will further resonate with recruits.
It’s a shame Manny and Darius left so early, as I think with one more year both would have pushed the first round.
If I recall correctly, Dozier Sr. lives in the DC/Baltimore area, so that could be a big factor. The one choice I don’t get from a player development standpoint is Louisville - they play great defense but almost none of Pitino’s highly ranked guard recruits make it in the NBA.
LA - I never said the past is irrelevant per se, my position is the ancient past is irrelevant. As it relates to the NBA, those players are currently in the league, and thus recognizable by recruits in the context of being influential when choosing a school.
You say UL’s highly ranked PGs don’t make it in the NBA, well here’s a newsflash - DMo isn’t currently in the league, and Trey Burke is struggling with a capital S…doesn’t even look like an NBA player at times. UL will point to letting players like Francisco Garcia run PG.
As i said before, we would like to think UM is a destination school for recruits, but I think that is far from true in their minds for a variety of reasons.
I know I've made that comparison before, but this one's a little different coming down the stretch. With Chatman, it was a two-horse race between Arizona and Michigan and the perception was that it was only a one-horse trot - Arizona. With Dozier, it seems that there are multiple options. Also, the Chatmans seemed to shut it down with the media well before he announced. But with Dozier, it seems like Mr. Dozier is willing to talk with anyone. There have been some very positive comments from Perry regarding Michigan very recently. With that said, I'm still not as optimistic as I used to be, but I wouldn't be shocked with any outcome.
I think this explains in large part some our recent recruiting woes. I know some say we're an NBA factory, but on the aggregate we really aren't. I think NBA players out of a given school have to be high profile in order to really have an impact in recruiting. For example, Manny Harris and Darius Morris being in the NBA doesn't really do anything to sway a recruit's opinion in my view. The Derrick Roses and Cousins of the world are much more recognizable. So we may have some former UM players in the league, but how many are really recognized other than Jamal Crawford?
2014-15 NBA roster survey: 19 players from Kentucky, most of any school followed by Duke (18), Kansas (17), North Carolina (16), UCLA (15).
This is a list of the top 5 programs. Who ever said we were top 5 or needed to be? I think if you go a little further down the list we are still in the top 10-15 in terms of producing NBA talent, which is right about where I would expect us to be. If we can recruit like a top 10-15 program that will make us competitive most years with our coaching staff.
Wasn't UM doing an in house visit yesterday? And the. He decides to postpone his decision. May mean nothing, but that can't be a bad sign.
It was known he wasn't announcing this weekend (more likely coinciding with ESPN's signing day coverage) before Michigan visited last night. The private decision may come this weekend, but not the announcement.
Agree with this. It will take awhile to build up the pool of guys recognizable in the NBA. I know this is probably an oversimplification, but there's a difference between kids who would make the NBA no matter where they go and kids who might need the right system, more development. Michigan can definitely point to putting underranked/underrecruited kids in the NBA recently. But we can also point out that players like Mitch McGary don't really need much help to get drafted. He is a rare combination of size and energy. I'm not saying that Michigan didn't help McGary, just that he's one of those guys that OKC was going to like anyway. They had seen enough of him probably before college to like and the few games they saw him play in college confirmed their beliefs.
This is a list of the top 5 programs. Who ever said we were top 5 or needed to be? I think if you go a little further down the list we are still in the top 10-15 in terms of producing NBA talent, which is right about where I would expect us to be. If we can recruit like a top 10-15 program that will make us competitive most years with our coaching staff.
Why wouldn’t we want to be an elite top 5 program? To me that’s the next logical step and should be the goal.
I think this explains in large part some our recent recruiting woes. I know some say we're an NBA factory, but on the aggregate we really aren't. I think NBA players out of a given school have to be high profile in order to really have an impact in recruiting. For example, Manny Harris and Darius Morris being in the NBA doesn't really do anything to sway a recruit's opinion in my view. The Derrick Roses and Cousins of the world are much more recognizable. So we may have some former UM players in the league, but how many are really recognized other than Jamal Crawford?
2014-15 NBA roster survey: 19 players from Kentucky, most of any school followed by Duke (18), Kansas (17), North Carolina (16), UCLA (15).
This is a list of the top 5 programs. Who ever said we were top 5 or needed to be? I think if you go a little further down the list we are still in the top 10-15 in terms of producing NBA talent, which is right about where I would expect us to be. If we can recruit like a top 10-15 program that will make us competitive most years with our coaching staff.
This list is not exhaustive, but we currently have 6 players on NBA rosters. For comparison UA has 12, Florida has 12, UConn has 8, Washington has 8,Texas has 8, MSU has 7, Georgia Tech has 7, Memphis has 6, Syracuse has 6, GU has 6, USC has 6
From an pure NBA production standpoint we’re probably in the 12-18 range, I think the more relevant inquiry is whether the alumni are notable players or relative unknowns. For the most part our guys are unknowns other than Crawford, although THJ is starting to carve a name for himself.
This kind of supports my contention that we aren’t an upper tier program, certainly not top 10, but more in the 15-20 range vs. the 10-15 that a lot of people were advocating for.
LOL - you do realize that many of the schools with more NBA players than us have put those guys in the league over the last 10-15 years, not just recently, right?
The past is irrelevant when it doesn’t suit your agenda, but relevant when it does. MSU has one more guy in the NBA than us, right, with 7? But at least three of those guys are Randolph, Shannon Brown and Richardson, who played ages ago. I don’t even know, is Alan Anderson on the list? He played ages ago too. Let’s look at all the recent MSU wings and guards who flamed out - Appling, Lucas, Durrell Summers, Ager, Ramar Morgan (more of a SF, I guess). The only recent MSU guys are Green (off to a promising start), Harris (struggling but he’ll be fine), and Payne (I predict a bust). After this year, add Dawson to the list of “didn’t make it.”
We’re beating MSU on the floor (6 of 9), getting more guys drafted in the first round, developing players better, and winning more in the tourney the past four years. But you would easily have them in the top 10 because “the past” is relevant, but not “the ancient past.”
LA - do you understand the distinction between relevant time span of on court production vs. relevance of NBA presence? In other words on court production is relevant within a 5-10 year span in my view, whereas the NBA presence is relevant as long as said alumni are active in the league. You can try all you want, you simply can’t refute me and it really irks you…all I can do is laugh. The same thing with your “Nik couldn’t pass as a freshman” claim. SMH
Does this really matter for the top tier recruits that we are talking about now, who probably believe they are NBA bound regardless of the college they go to? Or is it more important for guys who are fringe NBA talent and need the development? One example of clear pro talent that comes to mind is Chris Paul, do recruits think well Wake Forest put him in the NBA or do they just think he is so good that he would have been pro anyway and who cares that it was Wake where he went to college.
I know when I think of the superstars I don’t really think of where they went to college. But I also clearly have never had a recruiting pitch, so maybe the coaches make sure to point out what NBA players are from that school and make it matter?
Not sure if that was clear or if I am just rambling, not quite sure how to say what I am thinking.
But I also clearly have never had a recruiting pitch, so maybe the coaches make sure to point out what NBA players are from that school and make it matter?
I'm sure most college coaches with players in the NBA know how to promote it to their benefit. One thing Michigan can definitely promote Jon Sanderson and offensive skill development. We've had clear examples of guys getting better between freshman and sophomore year. We've also had examples of guys who didn't improve much. But the main point is - and I'm sure most good coaches say this - is that if the player is willing to put in the work, Michigan knows how to guide them in their improvement.
Agreed, you have to maximize your strengths when making the “presentation”. Riley/Jackson lay out the rings, Coach K has rings/USA bball, JB can certainly utilize development and recent NBA placement. I do think JB is a much better coach than salesman.
