Let me guess, he is equal to Matta and Ryan, too? If not better lol
6-8 years
Why do all these weird parameters come up when talking Izzo?
How far back do you want to go, Andre Hutson? Recent years are interesting because 1. Beilein was here, and 2. its more relevant to the question of why big men today would play for Izzo as opposed to other coaches. If you look at Izzo and Beilein head to head, Gauna and Horford were in the same class. Gauna was rated higher. Which big man had the better career. Nix was top 80, JMo unrated. Same class. Which had the better career? Payne and Mitch were 5 stars coming out of high school. Mitch was a better player by the end of his first year than Payne at the end of 4 years, and was drafted only a few spots lower despite missing most of his soph season. Costello was a 4 star in Mitch’s class. Decent last season. Jury’s still out. A nice case study going forward.
Izzo has been blessed with a lot of very talented, highly regarded bigs. Paul Davis was a top 10 recruit who had a very good career at MSU, a short stay in the NBA. Would he have done as well under other coaches? I throw out Herzog due to health issues. Suton was a much better when he left than when he got to MSU. Izzo just baby sat Randolph for a year. There are others I’ve forgotten, good and not so good, I’m sure.
Comparing Izzo to other coaches in developing bigs, including Beilein, is not laughable at all.
Horford and Gauna are not worth referencing.
Payne> Mitch
Nix= JMO
What is laughable is this idea that recruits give damn about your see-through parameters and excuses
“Izzo has been blessed with a lot of very talented, highly regarded bigs. Paul Davis was a top 10 recruit who had a very good career at MSU, a short stay in the NBA. Would he have done as well under other coaches? I throw out Herzog due to health issues. Suton was a much better when he left than when he got to MSU. Izzo just baby sat Randolph for a year. There are others I’ve forgotten, good and not so good, I’m sure.”
Seriously. This is just bitter and funny.
“Mitch was babysat for a year”
"GR3 was a top 10 recruit who had a very good career at UM. Would he have done as well under other coaches? "
Fair enough, though I think that eliminates any shot at objectivity and also allows hindsight to creep into the evaluation. At least now with this board, we can go back and prove what people actually thought while recruits were recruits
In this particular case, even if one thought Nix was overrated, I doubt they thought JMo was an equal prospect. Anyway, this horse is now dead.
Sane - your posts generally have a certain tone of respectability even if you disagree, at least in my experiences with you. I don’t think we see eye to eye on the staff/UM in general, but I nevertheless appreciate your ability to be open to various views without the nonsense.
In any event, who’s ready for football tomorrow? Pretty anxious to see how the Oline looks…honestly im more fearful than anything
Let me guess, he is equal to Matta and Ryan, too? If not better lol
6-8 years
Why do all these weird parameters come up when talking Izzo?
How far back do you want to go, Andre Hutson? Recent years are interesting because 1. Beilein was here, and 2. its more relevant to the question of why big men today would play for Izzo as opposed to other coaches. If you look at Izzo and Beilein head to head, Gauna and Horford were in the same class. Gauna was rated higher. Which big man had the better career. Nix was top 80, JMo unrated. Same class. Which had the better career? Payne and Mitch were 5 stars coming out of high school. Mitch was a better player by the end of his first year than Payne at the end of 4 years, and was drafted only a few spots lower despite missing most of his soph season. Costello was a 4 star in Mitch’s class. Decent last season. Jury’s still out. A nice case study going forward.
Izzo has been blessed with a lot of very talented, highly regarded bigs. Paul Davis was a top 10 recruit who had a very good career at MSU, a short stay in the NBA. Would he have done as well under other coaches? I throw out Herzog due to health issues. Suton was a much better when he left than when he got to MSU. Izzo just baby sat Randolph for a year. There are others I’ve forgotten, good and not so good, I’m sure.
Comparing Izzo to other coaches in developing bigs, including Beilein, is not laughable at all.
Horford and Gauna are not worth referencing.
Payne> Mitch
Nix= JMO
What is laughable is this idea that recruits give damn about your see-through parameters and excuses
“Izzo has been blessed with a lot of very talented, highly regarded bigs. Paul Davis was a top 10 recruit who had a very good career at MSU, a short stay in the NBA. Would he have done as well under other coaches? I throw out Herzog due to health issues. Suton was a much better when he left than when he got to MSU. Izzo just baby sat Randolph for a year. There are others I’ve forgotten, good and not so good, I’m sure.”
Seriously. This is just bitter and funny.
“Mitch was babysat for a year”
"GR3 was a top 10 recruit who had a very good career at UM. Would he have done as well under other coaches? "
"Caris LeVert was in the wrong grade and grew 3 inches"
“Trey Burke was really top 30 in HS but playing behind Sullinger and his lack of size distorted perception”
So Nix was a four star, top 75 recruit and JMo's dad was literally surprised his son got a high major offer.
Only if you think the rankings as accurate.
Izzo thought the ranking was accurate, or at least his view squared with the ranking. Izzo took Gauna over Horford. He took NIx over Morgan. Forget about Mitch and Payne’s rankings. Both were elite level players. Do you disagree with that? Costello was a highly regarded player, as well, one who Beilein wanted very badly. Izzo put on the heat and got him. The caliber of the talent that you have to work with is part of the coaching acumen equation. Randolph was in fact baby sat for a year. He had a lot of baggage. He’d miss class. Izzo’s staff had to keep close tabs on him. He was a phenom on the court, but a project off the court. That aside, I don’t get why you take these things down to a personal level. Why you need the mocking tone. How am I bitter? I simply answered the points raised.
Izzo thought the ranking was accurate, or at least his view squared with the ranking. Izzo took Gauna over Horford. He took NIx over Morgan. Forget about Mitch and Payne’s rankings. Both were elite level players. Do you disagree with that? Costello was a highly regarded player, as well, one who Beilein wanted very badly. Izzo put on the heat and got him. The caliber of the talent that you have to work with is part of the coaching acumen equation. Randolph was in fact baby sat for a year. He had a lot of baggage. He’d miss class. Izzo’s staff had to keep close tabs on him. He was a phenom on the court, but a project off the court. That aside, I don’t get why you take these things down to a personal level. Why you need the mocking tone. How am I bitter? I simply answered the points raised.
I like pumping the UM/JB bandwagon because they deserve it. The results speak for them selves! It’s comical to see people looking to discredit JB’s success. He builds great teams and keeps winning!
Why is this even MSU vs UM in a big man discussion? It started as why would a guy like Ellenson go there unless he wants to be a four year player?
Not saying Ellenson should go to Michigan. It’s a no brainer that Kentucky (on his list) and many others (not on his list…including Wisconsin) do a much better job developing bigs than MSU so it goes back to the original question of why would a big time big man want to go there?
I like pumping the UM/JB bandwagon because they deserve it. The results speak for them selves! It's comical to see people looking to discredit JB's success. He builds great teams and keeps winning!
You guys get mad at the UM talk on a UM BOARD but you go out of your way to praise MSU constantly and frame it in the context of (again) being the smartest guys in the room
Guys, it's a Friday night. Give it a rest. These arguments are so petty and accomplish nothing.
It’s not about that, it’s about the fact that there seems to be backlash any time someone suggests that a) the staff made a mistake in recruiting. B) one of our recruits isn’t all that good c) our coaches could be making better strategic decisions
It’s not about the tone of the message, it’s about the viewpoint and that is a fact. Bottom line is that certain people simply don’t want the staff/team criticized.
There is a right to criticize provided we don’t take personal shots at anyone, and our opinions should be respected at the same level as those that provide “the benefit of the doubt”.
I think some posters really need an injection of objectivity, the bias is a bit extreme to the point where it’s almost laughable certain situations
Everyone’s opinion is by definition subjective. If I have a bias, dispute my facts and prove it. I’m not one who rests primarily on giving the coaches the benefit of the doubt. I always explain myself. Calling someone delusional or bitter is just a cheap shot.
I never “praise” MSU, Izzo just has a better track record with bigs regardless of the justifications. we’re on a UM board - what’s your point? Should that influence a given opinion provided it’s not insulting? Who framed in the context of being “the smartest guy in the room”…I certainly never claimed such a thing. Big difference in what is actually said vs how one perceives.
Why is this even MSU vs UM in a big man discussion? It started as why would a guy like Ellenson go there unless he wants to be a four year player?
Not saying Ellenson should go to Michigan. It’s a no brainer that Kentucky (on his list) and many others (not on his list…including Wisconsin) do a much better job developing bigs than MSU so it goes back to the original question of why would a big time big man want to go there?
MSU basketball has been underachieving for a while now, obviously. Izzo has his team underachieving as a team and individually. His players develop at a snails pace or they get worse. Would I go to MSU if I wanted to increase my chances of developing into an NBA player? Hell no.
