The State of UM Basketball

[hailtoyourvictor]

@MattD

Just speculating here, but I think the manner in which the wins/losses occur loom large for most. In other words our wins are generally by small margins whereas their wins are beatdowns. All counts the same of course, but it may speak to the fact that we need to play a near flawless game to win whereas MSU is better than us by double digits when they’re operating at peak capacity (which they generally do against us).

A win is a win, if we are being honest.

[hailtoyourvictor]

@MattD

Really don’t see the need for trolling references. Does nothing but incite and provoke. But I’ll let Dylan do his job.

If you have a problem with my opinion, feel free to PM me to discuss it. Thanks.

[MattD]

For me, a win isn’t just a win. While it all counts the same in terms of win/loss, mentally a beatdown is worth more than a victory where luck may/may not have been involved.

Much the same as an emphatic block or dunk is worth more than 2 points, because it often demoralizes the opposition mentally.

So for me, the manner of the wins and losses are not created equal. Just my 2 cents

[hailtoyourvictor]

@MaizeBlue10

Since '08, North Carolina is 7-12 vs. Duke and Michigan is 6-10 vs. MSU. Just saying.

I know you also mean intesity, hype and rankings. But I’d say since Stu’s shot the intensity for the games have been pretty good. MSU has taken it to us a few times recently, but that also involved some beat up Michigan teams.

Good point. Also, the Michigan vs Ohio St. head to head football rivalry has been more lopsided that MSU vs Michigan basketball rivalry. It’s still a rivalry.

[hailtoyourvictor]

No, a dunk is worth two points. Unless the player gets fouled and he hits his FT (then it’s worth three).

[MattD]

An emphatic dunk/block is worth more than 2 points mentally/emotionally. But I’m not going to engage in a back and forth with you.

[BleedBlue]

That just kinds of boils down to MSU always being good, which is independent of us. When we beat MSU, they’re usually still highly ranked/regarded. When they beat us, it’s usually because we aren’t very good. I mean, we are 6-6 against them, going back to 2011 (when we really took a step forward, as a program) and 4/6 of their wins were the last 4 meetings, during which we were either mediocre or sub-par. Even then, their largest margin of victory (75-53 @EL) was in 2013, a year that we both made the final 8. So margin of victory can be taken with a grain of salt, in macro terms.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens this year, with a home-home, and both teams underperforming based on pre-season expectations.

[romeowolv]

Maybe for the emotionally weak.

[tarverine]

@AlbrechtShotFake

When will the time come where Beilein can get Michigan to the level of the rivalry Duke/UNC have?

The coach is not what makes a rivalry heated… Blaming something like that on Beilein is fantastically absurd. As others have said, Mich-OSU football has been FAR more lopsided since the dawn of the millennium than Mich-MSU basketball, and yet that rivalry is just as heated as before. Comparing this to UNC-Duke is, simply put, a concerning level of insanity on your part, as they are both 110% basketball schools who are blue blood top 5 programs without a doubt, something that MSU and especially Michigan cannot say. That’s a top 3 college rivalry on the level of Michigan-OSU and Army/Navy. It’s just ridiculous for you to think that the MSU-Michigan could ever reach that level and to use it against Beilein.

[buckets12]

Didn’t we beat them in EL in 2013? I thought that was the Stauskas kisses game and vaguely remember Walton coming up huge down the stretch in the Breslin. I do remember getting blown out the year we made the title game, which was shocking

[tarverine]

@buckets12

Didn’t we beat them in EL in 2013?

That was 2014.

[93grad]

Oh the irony

[MattD]

Perhaps, because when those things happen within a game to our team they seem to impact effort level. Just food for thought

[MattD]

With respect to OSU/M football rivalry, the win/losses have no doubt been lopsided, but the competitiveness of the games themselves haven’t been for the most part.

Yes, we lose, but the games have been really close from my recollection for the most part.

[MaizeBlue10]

Sticking with '08 as our benchmark, it’s been erratic on competitiveness.

I do agree with you on momentum plays, but I’d caveat that by saying it depends where they occur - at home or on the road.

[MattD]

I’d go back to 03 for competitiveness purposes since their domination in terms of win/loss commenced around that time. Eleven of the games were competitive in my view.

Also, I dont think it matters whether it’s home/road for Michigan in terms of momentum plays by the opposition. We’ve been a fragile team at times that is prone to breakdowns in effort when things like that occur.

[LosAngelesWolverine1]

There’s not a lot you can do when the refs allow them to maul us (and other teams) at Breslin, as they have in the past.

[LosAngelesWolverine1]

Huh? Try 2000. Those were the worst years.

[MattD]

I’m not one for complaining about the refs for the most part. Basketball is a physical game, and if the team cannot adjust to the level of physicality and the officiating thereof, then the opposition deserves to win.

Personally, I enjoy good old fashioned B10 slugfests with tons of physicality and hard nosed defense.

[LosAngelesWolverine1]

I feel just the opposite - the rules should be enforced as written, and if I wanted to watch a really physical game I’d just watch football instead.

To me, there’s a reason why MSU usually gets blown out once they reach the Final Four - the refs outside the Big Ten don’t let them get away with their usual crap, and they don’t know how to adjust.