I never said anything about Wagner’s free throws. I said I’d rather see Wagner making a layup than Doyle at the line. Yet another pathetic straw man from you.
Chi-Town hit the nail on the head.
Yup Manny Harris it happened to him.
I witnessed JB be all over Manny. But Manny also smoked, with a right cross, I believe Josh B.
What I feel like we’ve uncovered here is the fact that there were some pretty legitimate reasons that Wagner wasn’t on the floor more–whether fans mindlessly maligned Beilein for the fact he wasn’t playing or not. Guy is gonna be good though, and if it’s him starting and Donnal subbing. . . clear improvement for next year.
Well it’s the eyeball test vs the numbers. Wagner beats Doyle by the eyeball measure easily because he’s obviously more talented. Horford backed up Morgan and had worse net fouls, worse offensive efficiency and lower minutes. So the foul thing does matter a lot in Beilein’s world. They do use advanced stats to measure performance, even for practice. I simply disagree that wolverheel can reliably infer that it would have been better from a W-L perspective to play Mo more. Would it have been better for Mo? Obviously. Better for the team, this season? Speculative.
Ah… The old Purdue suspension…
I’m conflicted on Wagner… There were signs that he was going to be special in the Bahamas that were clear as day to anyone in the gym there. JB isn’t dumb, he knew he had a talent. The fact that he barely played in December (and also made a handful of mistakes that almost threw the game away at NCSU) was good reason to guess that something was going on there. He’s spoken over and over about how young he is and I think that’s a sign that there are certainly some maturity issues at play.
I really think he can be the future of the position at the five, but this is going to be a big offseason of growing up for him – both physically and mentally.
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How much of this Wagner info has to do with the culture of sport in Germany? They take things very hard and expect a lot out of themselves and their teammates. I am not saying there are guys on the team don’t care but I have no doubt Wagner cares much more than others on the team. I don’t think you try and take that away from him.
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I can’t speak for the sports-specific culture, but I lived in Germany for about 2 years. They are very direct and opinionated and though it’s kind of stereo-typical…rule-oriented. If you deviate from accepted practice or knowledge, break a rule…watch out, they come down hard on you. On a few occasions I’ve noticed Mo animatedly expressing himself to teammates on the way to the locker room. It kind of stands out. So maybe there are cultural adjustment issues.
I can see that just by watching Wagner on the court. What I wish Beilein would do is realize that it’s a whole different culture over there. I think it’s right to make him run or apologize if he yells at a teammate, but maybe do more on the fly teaching and let him learn from his mistakes, not bench him. I’ve seen Wagner’s press conferences and he seems like a great kid. Either way, nobody here was there or knows the whole story. It’s all speculation at this point.
I just played pick up basketball with Wagner at the ccrb. He is a great guy and was saying funny stuff the whole game. He threw down a 360 breakaway dunk and also hit like 4 straight threes. The guy just loves to play basketball.
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Yeah he’s in class with me. Really nice kid. Can get passionate and opinionated in class too, ha.
Ironically, we were the ones who mugged our way to a low-scoring win over Purdue this season, not vice versa. In the other two matchups, they put up a bunch of points.
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A freshman who makes plenty of mistakes of his own, can’t go off on another player in practice. You can’t argue with the coaches. You can’t make a scene and give lip to the refs. Period. I doubt that this is a result of the culture in Germany, i.e. they don’t support talking back to your elders or losing self control any more than we do. His enthusiasm needs to be channeled. He’s immature. He’ll learn. Probably has already. Beilein has said more than once that he loves coaching Mo. Mo has said that he loves being on the team.
AA7596, great point. I call it the RR affect. Michigan fans (mostly younger ones) would rather lose pretty than win ugly. As long as the offensive stat sheet is filled up, nothing else matters. It is the culture that mgoblog created.
No one is talking about the 2 here, but the glaring fact is that we have no one on the roster who has the size, the handle and the shooting to be an effective starter at the off guard, in the way that Stauskas and LeVert (when he was healthy) were. That’s a huge weakness in a Beilein offense. MAAR is more of point guard, Robinson doesn’t have the handle, and Chatman just isn’t getting it done (and needs to be eased out, IMO). Where does that leave us? Crossing our fingers that Ibi Watson can step right in and have a Stauskas-type freshman year? Not the best recipe for success.
In addition to not having a proven starting caliber 5, we don’t have the kind of athletic 4 that you need when you’re running a one big lineup. Some of our recruits may contribute, but none have the talent to definitely push out this year’s starters or to take us to a higher level for the whole season.
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Well said and I agree. I think Ibi Watson has the potential to be a player and a impact starter by his junior year. I like his game and once he hits up camp sanderson he shouldn’t be so skinny anymore. I think he will be a nice backup next season though and I think he can develop into something solid. For next year though I think we see the guards rotate between Walton/MAAR/Simposn the SF and 4 Irvin/Duncan/Aubrey and the 5 Mark/Mo
IMO, The season hinges on Wagner being able to play the 4 and sliding down Irvin to the 3. This is the only way I see us having a shot at competing vs the top of the conference.
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I would tend to agree. I’d like to see Teske, Donnal and Wagner rotating through the 4/5 most of the time, with Irvin, Robinson and Dawkins at the 3, maybe with a little time at the 2 or the 4. That being said, even in that projection, our overall level of talent and athleticism is not that high. Plus, I doubt very much whether Beilein will go with a two big lineup unless Teske and Wagner are both much better than we can expect.
I wish JB would adjust to his matchups. Playing a team like Purdue who plays two bigs I would like to see Teske and Wagner play some 4. Playing a team that will play the 4 guard go with our 4 guard sets. He needs to adjust. We will have an 8 man rotation regardless lets look at it both ways:
Players in bold are bench
4 guard sets
Walton
Xavier
MAAR
Duncan
Aubrey
Mark
Mo
2 bigs
Walton
Xavier
MAAR
Irvin
Duncan
Mo
Teske
Donnal
I’m not sure why we would want two guys on the floor who can’t shoot or handle the ball particularly well. And it’s not like any of our bigs have strong post games. We would essentially just be clogging the lane and stagnating our offense even further.
Defensively it might help situationally against teams that play two traditional bigs. But watching Wagner try to guard an athletic 4 that can handle would be an even worse mismatch than watching Irvin try to guard a banger.
We need an upgrade at the 4, but that upgrade isn’t currently on the roster. Unless Wagner improves his skill set, Irvin is still our best bet.