It’s clearly implied.
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What a total load of crap. Any inference of that made by you is completely erroneous. From a developmental standpoint and with the future of the program in mind, Wagner has by far the most skill and potential of any of our centers. Therefor, it is beneficial to play him more than 8 minutes a game. There was no reason for Doyle to be our first big off the bench against ND.
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Let me clarify: I would take a moody, stubborn athletic big man who rebounds, plays defense, blocks shots, and takes no prisoners any day over a soft, no-D, academic all-American with a heart of gold. Although that guy doesn’t currently exist on the roster, the closest – by far – is Wagner. Staff need to cut him some slack.
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What does putting him in his place even mean? If he was disrespectful of his teammate, then he deserves to be punished. There are plenty of ways to hold your teammate accountable other than demeaning him in front of the whole team and staff. I doubt they had him run sprints on the side for something that was tame.
If you’re a Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan etc. You can probably get away with whatever you want. Wagner is not that.
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You just read five posts that indicated Moritz mouthed off at coaches and other players, then was so immature he couldn’t stop when disciplined. And you isolate one strand of the argument to make it a global comment on Beilein’s failure to recognize the fire in his player? Yup, that’s flappin’.
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Could be cultural. I have lived in Germany for several years. If Wagner felt he was right, he very likely still felt that way after running stairs. Meanwhile, with all due respect to Dakich, like his Dad he isn’t a paragon of sportsmanship or tact. See his running victory laps at the end of a blowout win.
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[edit] Never mind, misread your comment.
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Nothing. More flapping. Trying to shore up a bad argument with more sophistry.
PG and C should have the biggest improvement. Adding Simpson along with Wagner getting into his 2nd year should be improvement over Dakich and a freshman Wagner.
Add that to the expected exodus of talent in the Big 10 and I think we should be able to expect something better than this year.
I’d love to see Chatman keep improving and be able to have a better rotation for the wings (MAAR, Irvin, Robinson, Chatman). Plus a healthy Irvin.
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And if Dakich demeans his teammates or opponents, he should be punished too.
But that seems pretty irrelevant in the situation Reegs described (unless they have a history of going back and forth, but that’s not something we can know).
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The biggest weak spot next year will be the 4 in my opinion (In terms of matchups). We badly need someone who’s athletic and a good enough shooter to play wing but big enough to defend your traditional back to the basket power forwards. I think we took GRIII for granted a little bit when he was here.
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Not if he’s blowing his assignments and costing you games.
So basically what Doyle was doing? Nice logic.
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Hey there, longtime lurker but I feel like I need to interject. I’ve heard that early on Wagner had major issues with respecting the staff and teammates. Talking back, yelling at, etc. He and Beilein supposedly sat down and had a long talk about passion and where to express it and Wagner’s been improving a ton on that. I forget where I heard this, I think on one of the insider boards, but the main point here is that at the end of the year that had blown over yet Wagner remained glued to the bench despite in-game performance.
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What’s Doyle got to do with it? Again, you can only speculate how well Mo would have played. I agree Mo has the highest upside, but I defer to B’s judgment on this.
By the way here are the numbers that everyone creamed their pants over:
You’ll notice that against the legit competition he racked up 4 fouls in about 20 minutes. Likely in the paint, likely shooting fouls, negating his offense.
What does Doyle have to do with it? You use the fact that Wagner may have (for how much you bitch about hypotheticals, you sure love to use them) been blowing assignments and costing you games as why he shouldn’t have been playing. Well the person who took his minutes, you know, Ricky Doyle, was ACTUALLY out there blowing assignments and costing us games, but without the upside and offense skill of Wagner.
Also your “photo proof” is completely meaningless when the people playing over him both committed over 5 fouls per 40 minutes this season.
Here are the Ken Pom numbers. Doyle was somewhat more efficient at higher usage. I think we can agree that 7.3 fouls/40 is unacceptable for Mo and that’s why he landed on the bench. Doyle’s net foul figure (called minus drawn) is -1.7 vs -4.4 for Mo. Doyle doubled Mo’s free throw rate.
Net foul is useless if the person can’t hit free throws. Doyle continuously bobbled the ball around allowing time for the defender to come and stop the easy layup. They’ll take a 60% free throw shooter taking 2 shots over Wagner making a layup ANY day. And so what if Wagner fouls out? How is that worse than him rotting on the bench? He makes a much better impact playing 15 minutes a game and averaging 3 fouls than Doyle does playing any time. Not to mention Doyle’s TORate is probably double the actual number if you count all the randomly missed passes he’s forced upon our point guards that the scorekeeper didn’t give to him.
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Doyle’s a better free throw shooter than Wagner and drew fouls at a higher rate. Their turnover rates are slightly in Doyle’s favor. I get it, Wagner has higher upside, but Doyle’s the safer pick now.
Stats are helpful, but not even close to the end-all solution you’re trying to make them out to be. In 2014 Jordan Morgan had a foul rate of about 6 per 40 minutes against tier A kenpom teams and Horford’s was 7.3, which is higher than Wagner’s (for the season, Wagner didn’t play against enough tier A teams to have a legitimate stat for that) and with far more minutes played. That team had the second best offense of the kenpom era and was a desperation three away from overtime with Kentucky in the elite 8. The fact that Wagner fouls more than Doyle does not come close to making up for all the other things that Wagner does better.
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