Offseason Discussion Thread


But the player may have evolved over those 60 plus games. Similar to Caris and DJ…certainly not the players they were two years prior. I wonder where MJ was ranked in his Sophmore year when he didn’t make his high school team.


Zavier is probably not going to ever be the shooter off the dribble type player but he can improve his mid range/in between game. Brooks I feel has an opportunity to improve in the area of shot off the bounce and midrange. To me Brooks should be tide to the hip of Sanderson to ad as much strength as possible. DeJulius will probably have the best handle on the team when he shows up and will need to focus on learning the offense and what a good shot is. But it will be imperative that he works on defense as JB has shown you will not see much floor if you are a defensive liability.

Livers I feel has an underrated handle and needs to work on taking his man off the bounce to the rack. I also feel he can be a good passer. So I won’t hand anything over to the freshman although I feel they may have better skill level than him. Livers has a head start on defense which they must adjust to also.

To me the big unknown will be the 5 position if Wagner leaves. Teske may start but I can see JB playing a lot of small ball in certain situations with Livers and Johns if he come along quickly. Davis is still a big unknown. Castleton I like a lot but will he be strong enough to give minutes next season.


Z is so quick with the ball that it would really behoove him to add a “quick to get up” type of floater where he pulls it almost on the up dribble. Something that he can put up anywhere free thrown line or under.


Hit on some stuff that you guys have discussed here in this piece today.


I don’t see how Matthews has any chance of leaving early right now. Shot isn’t good enough and his offense in general could really benefit from more time in AA. He won’t be able to athletically overpower guys at the next level like he does now. For Mo, I’ve just had a feeling for a while now that he’s staying. I’ve seen some saying he’s maxed out his potential, but I have to disagree. I think he actually improved a good amount from last year and I think he can keep it going. Overall offensive consistency, defense, and rebounding improvements could make him a really impressive player and improve his stock.


I have given up trying to predict if a guy is leaving early or not. I still have my opinions if they are ready or not, but you never know what is in a kids head and heart.


Not sure if it’s too difficult for you to find, but how many other starting D1 point guards didn’t make a single off the dribble jumper over the course of the entire season?


Don’t have an easy dataset of starting point guards, but I can’t imagine it is a very long list.


Yeah, it would be absolutely shocking to me if Charles left. He wouldn’t get drafted. There is not a long line of NBA teams looking for wings who shoot 31% from three and 55% from the line.


I don’t see Matthews going but nothing would surprise me at all. Some people just do not want to be in College. Wagner has nothing to prove at this point he is what he is. So either he likes college or he will forego his last year for the NBA draft and either make it or go back home and play in the European pro leagues.


Charles came here so he could develop enough to get drafted. Would seem strange if he left before he got to the “get drafted” part of that.


For everyone talking about Moe potentially coming back, what would he have to gain? Where do you see him improving his stock? What more can he accomplish as a senior that won’t be disappointing other than winning the whole thing?


Don’t think he has much to gain or prove. He still has room to improve, of course, but he doesn’t need to come back to do it.
I could only see him returning if he just loved the college experience so much or wanted to get his degree. I suspect he will leave. Guess this question wasn’t for me.


Weaker 2019 draft class so could be a potentially better pick equating to more guaranteed. Also he loves college. Fringe first round/early second round this year might be early 20s next

Why do you think he goes. You seem VERY adamant that he is going


Degree + potential retired jersey legacy vs. a 2nd round contract.

He’s an all time great already but a 4 year career with an All american season senior year makes him a top 5 player in university history potentially. If he has a 1st round guarantee that’s different but I’ll be shocked if that happens. And there’s obviously no guarantees of personal or team success to come back so it is a risk. But it might be a risk worth taking for a kid that loves college as much as Moe seems to. He seems so overjoyed just playing and competing, I really can’t imagine he’d enjoy playing 5 minutes a game or getting DNP - Coaches Decisions or in the G league as much as he would being the biggest star in college basketball on a top 10 team.

As far as on court…I honestly think Moe showed more promise in the final four than he had earlier this season even. Id love to see JB utilize his passing skills even more…all of a sudden he was throwing left hand bounce passes to back door cutters that we hardly even utilized earlier in the year. He averaged 0.8 assists and I think that could be an untapped piece of his game. Frank Kaminsky for example went from 0.8 to 2.6 assists by the end of his career. I also think Moe can shoot better than he did this year. He doesn’t need to prove it, but 39% from three, 52% from the floor and 69% from free throw seem like the absolute floor for Moe. He could be a 60/45/90 guy…not that it would affect his stock much at all but he’s very capable.


I’ve seen one analyst say that scouts put extra weight on NCAA tournament performance because of the competition - that is, it often provides a chance to see how prospects perform against future NBA players. So I really doubt that any scout is going to look at Wagner’s semifinal performance and think that he’s a future Bird or Olajuwon - they know that Loyola wasn’t putting any NBA bigs between Mo and the basket. His games against TAMU, FSU, and Villanova, on the other hand, provided relevant information.


Partying on campus for another year. As I said earlier, based on the money he’s likely looking at (Europe or two way G League deal), his decision is fairly close to a normal college kid’s decision to graduate a year early.

Two way deal amount varies from 75k to 279k based on how much time you spend in the NBA.


Most people’s reasons for him coming back = I want him to come back so my college team will be more competitive next year


I would say ask that question to Josh Hart and Grayson Allen, among others.

They had more to lose than Moe and already had accomplished more. I also agree with those who said last year that if it was about the money, he could’ve left last year to go play in Europe.

At the end of the day, I agree with you that he most likely leaves. I think the Final Four clinched his decision since he can raise that banner and got that experience/fun. It probably would have been a lot tougher decision if they hadn’t made it this far. However, in the very small chance he comes back, I wouldn’t be that surprised because as others have said, he loves this school, this team and college.


Grayson Allen made a very bad decision as far as future earnings and draft stock go.