What did you want the Pistons to do? Obviously Grant’s trade market was not what we thought it was. There is no reason to be mad right now until you see what the next move is. It’s clear that the trade was made with other moves in mind
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Yeah, at this point, you wait and see what is done with the space, and make a decision off that. If, for instance, they trade flotsam for Heyward and #15, your return ends up being semi-close to what we thought they’d get initially this go-round (I’m also not entirely convinced that some contender wouldn’t consider taking Heyward on at the deadline if he’s ambulatory at the deadline).
My main fear is them using this to go RFA hunting, as I don’t like either of the two main options (though prefer Bridges).
I hope so, we’ll see.
It’s just this realization that what we were certain was the team’s 2nd/3rd biggest Asset was worth jack sh#t. We’ve been gassing up our ‘young core’ when it turns out this team might have only 2 legitimate assets in the entire squad. If Grant is worth a salary dump, would we have to give up value to trade away Stewart and Hayes? Houston, Magic, and OKC are doing a slow build, piling up top 10 picks and young talents, eating bad contracts for picks while we tanked for 1 season, got 1 good/great player and decided that’s enough back to midtable purgatory.
I’m of the opinion that we have the most garbage squad in the entire league with the least amount of young talent and the teams picking ahead of us are way better situated to contend in the future…while we ended up with the 5th pick.
The Pistons have been awful for 3 straight seasons
We’ve been awful for 15 years lol
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Only two intentionally!
Obviously, we don’t know what’s happening, but let’s say they try to win next year, and the roster ends up being:
Cade
Sexton
Bey
Murray
Ayton
Or
Cade
Mathurin
Bey
Bridges
Stewart/Bagley
Bench something like Joseph, Olynyk, those two bigs (Bagley/Stew, at least one of them), Livers, Lee, maybe Diallo
Is that a play-in team?
I’m not so sure. Honestly, it looks frighteningly similar to the perpetual limbo team in Charlotte.
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You can be mad now. The pistons made themselves worse with this trade. There is no sure fire way to improve from it (Hugh draft picks which also isn’t a certainty). We should all be ready to see this as a good trade as it is a piece of multiple moving parts. Right now it’s a set up, but sometimes set ups don’t pay off. Sometimes you finish with a bottom 3 record and get the 5th pick.
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lol well right. But you’ve tanked for 3 years now. You have an elite guy like Cunningham (who I love). They’re much better positioned than you think just because of Cade IMO
And no you dont have to give up value to trade. They’re on cheap contracts and can just not be renewed if you really have to get rid of them
Sure, be mad if you want. Just seems silly to get worked up about it before knowing what the next plan is. And who cares if they are worse on June 23rd? The point is what does it look like going into the season? Either they add good players with the cap space, they absorb a bad contract to pick up more assets, they use the new assets to try to move up in the draft or they are just worse without Grant and have a chance at Wemby next year. Pistons weren’t going to be good with Grant and Grant wasn’t going to bring in some magically great return so I’m not sure what people want
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What did those three years net us?
Bey- a solid role player, potential starter on a decent team, currently a worse player than Grant.
Cade- potential franchise player
Killian Hayes- a complete bust that not a single team values in a trade
Isaiah Stewart- dude, if Grant was worth a 2025 30th pick, I can’t imagine Beef Stew is looking like much of an asset.
Livers-maybe solid role player?
Cade is awesome, a certified baller, but so are Jayson Tatum and Luka and those two evidently need good teammates around them.
This is what the other teams have:
OKC- Giddey, Chet Holmgren, Lu Dort, Poku, Jeremiah Robinson Earl (?) + 5 thousand frps
Magic- Franz, Jabari Smith Jr, Jonathan Isaac, Wendell Carter, Jalen Suggs.
Houston- Green, Alperen Sengun, Paolo Banchero, Josh Christopher
It feels like there’s a disconnect in the discussion between just analyzing rosters/players and understanding how the NBA works.
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I get that. The Hayes pick is the real stinker but you have a potential top 10 guy in the league, not a bad starting point.
OKC and Houston had superstars they were able to trade to net tons of assets to super charge their rebuild. Where as the Pistons had absolutely nothing when they started.
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Dropping off Grant without taking anything back while getting a likely late first in 2025, a 10-pick trade-up in the 2022 second round and two pretty good future seconds is nothing to sneeze at. I doubt they could have done better shopping anywhere else. The Pistons can now decline their team options on Carsen Edwards, Luka Garza and Frank Jackson and have nearly $47 million in cap room, more than enough to drop a max offer sheet on Miles Bridges or Deandre Ayton or perhaps to tempt Dallas guard Jalen Brunson.
The Pistons can also take a victory lap on the Grant signing, which seemed like a dramatic overpay at the time but Detroit has now parlayed into future draft equity with no real cost in the intervening two years. Whatever other weirdness has gone on in Detroit the last two years (one of the picks they got back was one of the four seconds they sent to the Clippers in that wacky Luke Kennard deal), Grant’s contract was the biggest bet by the Troy Weaver regime so far, and it hit.
The obvious question in Detroit now is whether this was just a speculative play for cap room, or if it was done with advance knowledge of a particular player being ready and willing to sign into the Pistons’ cap room. Grant could have potentially been a piece in a sign-and-trade deal with Phoenix for Ayton, for instance; that possibility is gone now. Between today and July 1, the Pistons will hold the title of League’s Most Interesting Team.
Wow don’t think I quite grasped how bad the Pistons have been. 1 winning seasons since the ECF loss to the Celtics in 08. That’s wild
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This is exactly it. Pistons haven’t had anything to be able to acquire assets. They can’t build the same way as those teams
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I agree in that I’m not mad. You statements in Grants value align with my feelings. I get why people are upset though.
I’m keeping an open mind for now and will see what happens. I am leery of cap space in today’s NBA when there aren’t a lot of players changing teams in FA that are highly impactful. Getting the 5th pick was a bummer since top-3 or maybe top-4 probably gets you another big asset.
As for the potential FA out there, I think Ayton and Bridges are solid players and wouldn’t mind them on the Pistons, but I don’t love the idea of overpaying for them. I’m not a Brunson guy at all, especially not at a high value contract. He’s a solid player and had a good year, but an undersized and moderately athletic guard who is what he is at this point isn’t something to get too excited about. I’d like to have him on the team - I would rather not overpay for him.
But maybe that’s what this all is - without a top-3 pick the only way the Pistons get more talent quickly is to overpay.
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My draft board is similar to yours. Mine is:
- JSJ
- Paolo
- Jaden
- Chet
- Keegan
I’ve been all over the place on who I should put at #5 since there’s not much separating from Mathurin and the next tier. I’ve considered Eason at #5 as well as Sochan but they have holes that put them lower for now but they have more upside than Murray IMO. Murray seems like a safer pick but won’t ever be a star.
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I mean, I can virtually guarantee you there is going to be at least 1 all-star taken at 5 or below. Without guessing who it is (I have opinions obviously but who knows), the key is to draft well even when you don’t have a top pick.
The Grizzlies obviously got Ja and JJJ high, but also got Bane 30th, Brooks 45th, got De’Anthony Melton for swallowing the Josh Jackson contract, Tyus Jones 24th, Brandon Clarke 21st…hell, the Pistons could use Jon Konchar and Xavier Tillman.
Like those guys top out at fringe all-star (Bane), but any of them would probably start on Detroit right now.
So it’s not all just having high picks - it’s having a number of them, and…being good at drafting.
One edit: Weaver’s track-record is incomplete but semi-encouraging on this. Bey was obviously a very good pick, Stewart seems ok, Livers seems pretty good. Hayes is a dud, but that’s going to happen (just hate for it to happen in the lottery).
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I’m coming around on maxing Ayton. Just thought you all would want to know. Recognize the contract is a negative asset the instant it is signed.