I guess I disagree on the top six big and top six shooter (is that Bey?). I like Bey, and they should absolutely hang onto him as a wing player. I don’t think this team is any good defensively (I think Ayton is pretty average, Bey a plus, the rest…I dunno). I have a really hard time with the rookies, for obvious reasons. Murray, to me, seems semi-duplicative of Bey (maybe a little more dynamic offensively?). I think Ivey and Sharpe are great picks, but both could distinctly stink, too.
Off the top of my head, if I’m ranking centers:
Jokic
Embiid
Gobert
Bam
Towns
Are a group of their own.
I PERSONALLY would take Jarrett Allen or Myles Turner over Ayton, but don’t know if the gap is that big.
I see Capela and Sabonis in the group as well.
In other words, I have Ayton in a #6-10 group that I have a hard time drawing sharp line between (note, none of these guys make $30 million).
To me, I believe there’s a lot more to Ayton that has yet to be unlocked and he can ascend into the top 5 discussion. He’s only 23 and has gotten better each season. You’re paying for future production, not past production and I think he’ll be worth the max or at least help the Pistons make a leap from bad to good team who can grow with the young core.
Detroit looks like an ideal fit for Ivey on paper, as cornerstone Cade Cunningham would benefit from not being asked to create his own shot on every possession. With a slasher such as Ivey alongside him, the cerebral Cunningham could utilize his excellent shot-making prowess and ability to attack closeouts more consistently, allowing him to slide all over the floor while giving Ivey time to grow into being a more consistent on-ball creator and primary ball handler. Should Ivey be off the board, drafting the most productive player in college basketball this season in Murray would be an excellent consolation prize, as he looks like a Day 1 contributor as the most NBA-ready prospect in the draft, capable of sliding between all of the frontcourt positions thanks to his perimeter-shooting ability, feel for the game and defensive versatility.
I really want Ivey, but I’m afraid Sacramento will take him leaving us spending a pick on Keegan Murray. I hope to Allah this does not happen, there are many better prospects than Keegan Murray. Mathurin, Sochan, Dieng, Daniels…and Murray is not even a good fit for the Pistons. Fran ran a structured offense that got the best out of KM, Piston’s ball is iso heavy and will require him to create in the half-court which is one of his weaknesses. We can afford to be bold when other prospects don’t look like massive drop offs from Murray.
Seems like a bluff you can call if you aren’t sold on Ayton. If you think he won’t be a part of a championship team at a sign and trade max you offer what you can and force the Suns to pay him.
I don’t pretend to be an expert and I sort of get some of the concerns about Keegan’s ceiling…but you’re way more down on him than seems logical. I get that he seems more like a guy you’d draft around 10 than 5…but I think he can help.
Keegan is fine if a team already has two young stars and would help contribute as a very good rotation player. The issue is the Pistons need a 2nd star to go with Cade and Keegan isn’t that player which is why I prefer Ivey at 5 over Murray. However, James Edwards insinuated that the Pistons liked Murray the most out of everyone at 5 outside of the big 3.
Who honestly watched B1G basketball this season, observed both Ivey and Keegan play and thought, ‘Wow, Ivey is ok I guess but this Keegan blows my mind he could be the next big thing in the NBA?’
I certainly didn’t. In fact, several times this season I saw flashes of greatness from Ivey. OTOH I saw Diabate effectively neutralize Keegan in Iowa.
I’m fully on board with Ivey/Sharpe over Murray, because I think that they both have some star potential. I’m a bit concerned about Ivey’s size, and I think he isn’t your prototypical shooting guard by any stretch (his strength is going to be ball-screens (amazing he did so little at Purdue!) and getting to floater/rim zone and not shooting) but I think Cade ameliorates that to some degree. I also think that the amount of progress he displayed from freshman to sophomore year is very encouraging.
That said, if those guys aren’t an option, I don’t hate Murray at all. I can definitely see him being a quality two-way wing, and there aren’t that many of those guys in the NBA. I just don’t see an All-Star in there. If there is one aspect of Murray’s game I’m most confident in, its that he’ll be a pretty high level defender across a number of positions. I also think that he showed the ability to do enough different things on offense (shoot, score in the paint) that he can find his way to double-digit points on respectable efficiency. I don’t see him as the potential usage sponge Ivey could be.
I actually did. I was in person at the games Purdue and Iowa played in Ann Arbor and was watching both guys closely knowing they were going to be targets for the Pistons. A few takeaways I had on each:
Ivey
Before the game, Ivey was standing at the scorer’s table getting powder or wiping his hands. One of the students yelled “Ivey, you’re a bum! You don’t deserve to wear #23!” Ivey looked right up at the kid, smiled, and nodded his head. I thought he was going to go off for 50 points based on the look he gave this kid.
The whole game he was pressing, playing out of control, like he wanted to score 50 points to show that kid he was wrong.
He was bad from the field (6-13, 1-4 from 3), not looking for any teammates (0 assists), and just wild (5 turnovers).
Murray
A few weeks later Keegan Murray was in town and Michigan had already beat them in Iowa and Diabate had forced Murray into an awful game.
Murray came out and played like he could score 50 if he wanted.
Excellent shooting (7-9, 4-4 from 3, 5-6FT)
Grabbed 7 boards and initiated some controlled fast breaks from them.
Blocked 3 shots
Had 3 assists to 1 turnover.
Played under control the whole game, knew exactly what to do, exploited weaknesses, and helped lead his team to an easy win.
Obviously those are just 2 games, but they were the only two games in person I saw them both play where I watched them specifically. Keegan can’t jump as high or run as fast as Ivey, but in those two games he was far and away the better player where I came away thinking, ‘Wow, Ivey is ok I guess but this Keegan blows my mind.’
Never said he was more impressive than Ivey. He shot 78% from the field that night, with 7 boards, 3 assists and 3 blocks. If you’re gonna dismiss him based on one game, then you should boost based on another game. Obviously, doesn’t really work like that.
End of the day, Murray is probably going to be a solid NBA player. I think you’re way too down on him. I like Ivey much more than Murray, but if Murray is available at 5, I’m not gonna be upset if the Pistons draft him. He’s going to be a contributor in the league for a long time.
He probably will be a solid NBA player but he’s got one of the bottom 30 ceilings in the entire draft class. Dozens of guys ahead of Murray I think will end up being better players.
One thing that Ivey has a huge edge over Murray is his elite athleticism. Ivey has zero spacing at Purdue due to Edey/Williams and the college rule makes it nearly impossible for elite athletes to get to the rim. With NBA spacing and lack of post option, he’ll be a lot better there. Plus there’s a lot more potential for Ivey to get better as a player and has the best chance to be a superstar whereas Murray is a very good college player but has a benefit of a great Iowa offensive system but has a lower ceiling because he’s likely he is who he is which is a very good 3 and D wing player.
Everything I’ve heard about Sharpe reinforced my opinion that Sharpe is the biggest risk out of everyone as a prospect. I’m not completely sure other than vertical jump that he has the functional athleticism to get into his spot. Sharpe is a better shooter than Ivey which I will concede.