I also admit to being blinded by some “nobody wants this guy” resurgence belief in Detroit. Totally different guys but Rasheed Wallace comes to mind. He fits the age group of our core and the guys we do have seem like hard workers that could get him in line. Worth the risk IMO when the alternative is wasting the money on other overpriced players anyway
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Well yeah, if you’re resigned to them wasting money, I guess the way in which they waste it doesn’t quite matter.
I think the “flags” on Ayton are different from Wallace - I don’t think people questioned Wallace’s will to win, but it was the massive pile of techs, and then just his association with the JailBlazers circus (turns out both him and Zach Randolph grew up).
I just get really queasy when I see guys whose job it is to compete at a high level having obvious questions about his willingness to compete.
Lot of good information on Pistons cap situation here. The guest proposes that what would make a lot of sense of both teams (if the Pistons did want to go after Ayton) would be a sign and trade where the Pistons sign Ayton and take on the injured Saric in exchange for Grant and Olynyk.
I honestly dgaf about video games.
If Ayton has bad work ethic, he wouldn’t be producing as well as getting better every season. He went from a minus defender to a plus defender in 3 years. That’s hard work.
There are a bunch of players having the max and they’re not franchise cornerstone so the criteria that he has to be a cornerstone is a weak argument IMO. Beside Ayton’s contract would run out just as Cade gets the max contract plus they would be giving up Grant at minimum and still would have at least 20+ mil of cap space so this is kind of moot point. Pistons need talent and Ayton is a talented player. They should be pushing for play in game instead of tanking forever. Plus the Pistons would gain a Bird’s right from Ayton so giving the max should be a non-issue IMO.
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Sheed never really grew up I think. Still was a great player though, ha. Most of the time the environment dictates how those personalities affect the team.
How many max players who are not franchise cornerstones are on, say, top 8 teams?
By his own admission, Ayton sleeps two hours a night during the season because he’s up playing games. I don’t care about games either, but I’d care if that’s his priority.
Cade’s extension would kick in during the 2025-2026 season. A sign-and-traded Ayton would be signed through 2027-2028.
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Sarver certainly would though.
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Agreed - I’m discussing what Williams has said.
I’m already skeptical about spending our cap now. But trading away an asset as well as signing a guy for huge money? That’s the type of short-sightedness that got us into this mess. I don’t want Ayton but if we are going to get him, the only we should is through free agency.
Tobias, Wall, Russ, Simmons, KP, Wiggins, K-Love, DLo, Hayward, and Murray are players who are important but aren’t worth the max contract. You have to get out of the mindset that max is only reserved for elite players. Ayton is 23 and ascending as a player. That’s the type of player worth signing for especially when he fits the rebuild timeline.
He was awesome for most of the playoff except for a couple of games in the last playoff series. He’s more than good enough to help the Pistons get into the next level. Pistons won’t be tanking for the top 3-5 pick next season especially when they played a lot better post all-star break.
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All those guys are absolute franchise killers dude. The sixers are desperate to trade Harris for anything, Wall and Russ have been hot potato’d and are among the worst contracts in the league. Wiggins has been solid this year, really only there because they signed him for a worse max (D-Lo), they’re looking to deal Hayward, Simmons…I don’t even know what to say about…Porzingis is an awful contract.
The only one I’ll give you is Murray - who I’d call a franchise cornerstone.
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Problem is you can’t pinch pennies and expect to get good players or at least the next tier. It’s either be bad until Cade said enough and leave the team when his contract runs out. Ayton’s production, age and him getting better every year is enough for me to justify S&T with a max contract with Bird rights transferring to the Pistons.
Given age and production so far I think Murray is probably the closest player to Ayton on the list in terms of impact though. Murray’s injury concerns being as scary as Ayton’s off the court stuff
Here are $30 million/annual contracts on teams that made the conference semis (eg, won a playoff series):
Jayson Tatum
Giannis
Khris Middleton
Jrue Holliday
Jimmy Butler
Bam Adebayo
Stepen Curry
Klay Thompson
Andrew Wiggins
Luka Doncic
Devin Booker
I’d say 2 of those guys are not one of the two best players on their team (ie, a cornerstone) - Wiggins, and Holliday.
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Even if Ayton were personally a model, I also have grave concerns about paying that money to the 6th or 7th best center in basketball who can’t switch.
Yes. @Guest is definitely right that there are players who are going to command the max and are important but fall short of being stars. @mgl is correct that, generally, those guys aren’t worth paying the max to. And that’s without factoring in the effort issues/intangibles stuff that is so hard to know and quantify.
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The Ben Simmons comp!
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CRINGE. But this is a Pistons forum. There was a time when Andre Drummond appeared to be worth a max deal and so many effort/coachability/etc. concerns were overlooked.
What do you think a Cade + Ayton + Saddiq + Ivey/Murray/Sharpe team’s ceiling is?
That feels like top 6 guard + top 6 big + top 6 shooter + hopefully another key piece in a couple years. I’d think that’s an ECF team at some point, pending how good this year’s draft pick becomes.
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You also risk not getting anything for Grant. Can’t be too stingy on what you’re asking for him and he’s an UFA after this year, whereas getting Ayton in FA is not going to happen because he’s an RFA.
I’m fine if the Pistons don’t get Ayton. He speeds up the timeline a bit and I like his potential, but I don’t think he’s make or break for the direction of the franchise. And I’m a believer in Beef Stew. I’m good with trading for him if the price isn’t too steep. If it’s too steep, I’m fine with saying no.
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