I see Hendricks, Ausar, Whitmore as the next group
Whitnore seems to fail lots of IQ tests (not literal ones, but it seems like his feel/judgement is perceived to be poor), but he’s also the youngest guy in the class
Ausar gets raves for IQ, but obviously raw shooting that may never get there and like his brother throws some “cheeky” passes that may be an OTE tbing but he’ll need to iron out. These two are seen as plus plus athletes, just different warts
Hendricks seems like the safest one? I like Duncan’s comp of “JJJ if he never figured out he had low lost juice”
My really risk averse thing, just because I think he’s getting undervalued a bit due to melanin counts and the basic phenotype of player being lame, but a guy who is super valuable outside his stat line is Dick
He’s going to get drafted lower than like Kispert but he’s a way better prospect
Most JAS guys don’t have as many bells and whistles
This is a different argument than what we were previously talking about but I think Marion would play up in a modern game. He was at his best in Phoenix and they have influenced the modern game as much as anyone. When he was there he was shooting 4-5 3s per game at solid efficiency. To me he’d be every bit as good now as he was back then, maybe better. Basically the ultimate role player. Like a souped up Bruce Brown/kinda Draymond type, with better scoring but less passing.
Listening to the Ausar Dunc’d On eval and getting a little more dour on him and prob Amen too. I’d be really curious how high pick non-shooting guards pan out. Feel like “pretty badly” is the answer.
Also vaguely have the idea that even if they get good reviews as kids, I wonder if being old and in an unchallenging environment and the fact that the jumpers are so broke is more of a wart than is understood.
Yeah that’s exactly what I was thinking. A guy that can easily help you win a title as a 3rd best player. I wouldn’t call that a role player except insofar as everyone outside your top 2 is just a role player.
Are Draymond and Klay role players? Kind of. But they’re also HoFers and worthy of a top 5 pick if you think that’s what you’re getting
Yeah thinking on it more it’s not actually that big a deal to have 2 non-shooters especially if they’re heady and can get to the rim. The Simmons thing where Doc would just stick him in the dunker spot and not make him a screener for off-ball stuff was nonsense.
Both of these guys, you’d think if they catch in the short post w some room, good things are going to happen, right? Which makes them very credible screeners on all that good second side pin down stuff that the NBA loves.
And there definitely are guys who are just too athletic to keep out of the paint even if using a screen for them isn’t ideal. I wonder if they’re almost more like Giannis in some sense where in iso you really do have to load up to them and that’s plenty to create good shots.
I forget what podcast I was listening to, but the hosts said their number one rule for drafting would be to not draft guys who can’t shoot. You just can’t guarantee you’ll fix it and if you can’t shoot as a guard or wing you’re not sticking in the league.
Obviously some exceptions exist, but for the most part it’s tough to find a guy so good at everything else that you ignore his non shooting.
Their learning has been “don’t underestimate what a driver can do with NBA space” - so if a college guy is getting foiled by help from the corners when he drives….we’ll that doesn’t happen
Conversely “lots of guys have learned to shoot better - doesn’t mean they will”
(This is part of my bullishness on Ivey - imagine when the Pistons have shooting)
It’s absolutely the most important skill—it’s the whole point of the game. But guys with that kind of athleticism can get close to the basket and the game features SO MANY shooters these days that perhaps it’s not the premium if might be.
To me when it comes to non-shooters, it’s “what is the cost of not guarding them”. With slow bigs who can’t handle or shoot, it’s pretty clearly close to zero.
With these guys, I dk, maybe it turns out they can’t finish or pass. But you wouldn’t guess that right now I don’t think.