Matt exactly, I am in sales as well just can't take that first no as a forever no.
That’s an oversimplification. First, you can’t pursue every elite recruit hot and heavy. You have to prioritize. In some cases, there is simply NO interest in Michigan. In other cases, academics are not in order. I know for a fact that we passed on a 6’ 10" top 50 recruit because he was not close to qualifying, let alone handling Michigan academics. We did not back off on Swanigan, even though his interest was low. We just can’t get him on campus. The elite recruits we are losing are going to Duke, Kentucky and the like. Izzo is also losing out to Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. It is what it is.
All that is true, we are losing out to elite programs however, with our upgraded facilities it’s time to start winning those battles.
On a side note,
I’ll also never understand how JB took a pass on Esa Ahmad. 6ft 8inches, can shoot and handle the rock, but most importantly, he is an outstanding rebounder. Bielien is going to regret that the next two years. Huggins, who has no business landing him, full court pressed him and got his attention. It seems JB expects these kids to be knocking down Michigan’s door for an offer. I’m afraid of what the next 2-3 years are going to look like at this rate.
Who says we passed on Ahmad? Though if we did, I guess it was likely because our staff thought we had Chatman and Wilson locked down as future fours.
His AAU coach told me that. Insane.
Truth in this one has to lie somewhere in the middle. Esa never visited Ann Arbor despite the fact that it’s only two hours away. And usually communicated that his dad was the one talking with U-M and he was going to visit soon.
A lot of times these stories turn into timing things… Like Mitch McGary would say that Purdue wouldn’t take him because he tried to commit really young when his grades simply weren’t there. Once he blew up again, he would have never gone there because of that fall out.
Not saying this is the exact situation with Esa… but something didn’t add up. I suspect someone was looking for some level of interest at a certain time and it wasn’t there. Probably each party at different times.
Mpbear14, as I recall you also thought Jalen Coleman really liked Michigan, but when push came to shove he opted to open up his recruitment to many other teams. I enjoyed your posts last summer and your insights, I’m just suggesting that the interest of the All Ohio Red kids maybe wasn’t as high as it had seemed - or maybe there were a lot of factors in play. I do like Ahmad’s film and he seems like a nice player.
I’ve been watching a ton of college hoops recently and one thing stands out to me; Most of the teams that have the success have a center that can get the ball on the post and simply make something happen when the offense turns stagnant. Besides the occasional awkward Doyle baby hook, nobody on this roster can do anything with iso situations in the low post consistently. If Beilfeldt was 3 inches taller he’d have potential in those scenarios, but as it stands now, our offense doesn’t have any easy way to break out of funks, as is seen through the common 7+ minute scoring droughts.
I've been watching a ton of college hoops recently and one thing stands out to me; Most of the teams that have the success have a center that can get the ball on the post and simply make something happen when the offense turns stagnant. Besides the occasional awkward Doyle baby hook, nobody on this roster can do anything with iso situations in the low post consistently. If Beilfeldt was 3 inches taller he'd have potential in those scenarios, but as it stands now, our offense doesn't have any easy way to break out of funks, as is seen through the common 7+ minute scoring droughts.
FWIW… We watched the best offense in the country for the last two years here and it didn’t have that piece.
I see three huge problems with our offense. First, after watching the tape from Italy where he averaged a team high 17 a game and shot something like 60% from the floor, I thought Irvin was headed for a big season. Nope. His inability to make open threes has been frustrating and surprising.
Second, our pick and roll offense depends on big men setting great oicks, and none of our guys are good at it.
Third, you simply can’t discount the fact we’re playing without our two best players. With them, you have to figure we are at least 8-5 in league play (instead of 6-7) and on the bubble, all other problems set aside for now.
Irvin had big games on the European tour because he was getting open looks consistently. Now, he is taking terrible forced shots or shots near the end of the shot clock. Open looks vs. contested looks against teams that have a scouting report and know what he can do.
The pick and roll is a mix of both the guard and the big not doing things correctly. Guard isn’t allowing the big to set a pick by not setting it up correctly. The big isn’t giving the other team’s enough looks. Helps to set illegal screens every once in a while (much like holding in football, refs won’t call it every time).
The lack of pick and roll offense also has forced Irvin to take tougher shots. The point guard hasn’t been able to get in the lane consistently and giving Irvin inside-out 3’s which he shoot a much higher percentage on rather than his standstill and/or jab step 3’s.
Irvin also excelled last year shooting 3’s in transition. Walton’s injury especially and LeVert’s subsequent injury this year have pretty much eliminated the transition game. Not that we were ever a fast paced team, but we can’t push the tempo now at all due to the current personnel and lack of depth. Irvin got a number of open looks in transition last year. Walton’s speed is definitely missing as he was capable of grabbing the rebound and going. So were LeVert and Stauskas. Irvin has shot poorly this year but he’s also been forced to take a lot of contested 3’s. He’s the type of player that is dependent on playing off of players not creating the offense himself.
Mpbear14, as I recall you also thought Jalen Coleman really liked Michigan, but when push came to shove he opted to open up his recruitment to many other teams. I enjoyed your posts last summer and your insights, I'm just suggesting that the interest of the All Ohio Red kids maybe wasn't as high as it had seemed - or maybe there were a lot of factors in play. I do like Ahmad's film and he seems like a nice player.
You are probably right LAW. My only rebuttal to your post would be it’s JB’s responsibility to “wow” these kids. Get them more interested. I find it hard to believe that Esa Ahmad was initially knocking down Huggins door to go to West Va.
Here’s where I have a problem with JB’s recruiting. He seems to get turned off by a kid if he isn’t trying to run through a wall to play at Michigan. This isn’t directed at anyone in particular but I constantly read on message boards when we lose out on a big time recruit and settle for a Levert, Dawkins, Robinson or MAAR that these kids want to play for Michigan. These are the kids we need. Etc etc. Well of course they would run through a wall to play for Michigan, their alternative is Kent State, Rhode Island or Miami of Ohio. Granted, some of these recruits will pan out and be productive, but we aren’t going to be a consistent winner with them. It’s just not realistic. One more point I want to make and then I’ll shut up is we had an elite big guy when we made it to the national championship game. Quite frankly, that’s all that matters in my eyes, the NCAA tournament. It cannot be stressed enough how important having one of those on the roster is.
Who says we passed on Ahmad? Though if we did, I guess it was likely because our staff thought we had Chatman and Wilson locked down as future fours.
His AAU coach told me that. Insane.
Truth in this one has to lie somewhere in the middle. Esa never visited Ann Arbor despite the fact that it’s only two hours away. And usually communicated that his dad was the one talking with U-M and he was going to visit soon.
A lot of times these stories turn into timing things… Like Mitch McGary would say that Purdue wouldn’t take him because he tried to commit really young when his grades simply weren’t there. Once he blew up again, he would have never gone there because of that fall out.
Not saying this is the exact situation with Esa… but something didn’t add up. I suspect someone was looking for some level of interest at a certain time and it wasn’t there. Probably each party at different times.
I see three huge problems with our offense. First, after watching the tape from Italy where he averaged a team high 17 a game and shot something like 60% from the floor, I thought Irvin was headed for a big season. Nope. His inability to make open threes has been frustrating and surprising.
Second, our pick and roll offense depends on big men setting great oicks, and none of our guys are good at it.
Third, you simply can’t discount the fact we’re playing without our two best players. With them, you have to figure we are at least 8-5 in league play (instead of 6-7) and on the bubble, all other problems set aside for now.
Been saying the same thing about our bigs and the poor picks they set all season.
If and when we leave Adidas for Nike, JB will coincidently become a much better recruiter. He is unchallenged at identifying young talent, but when the vast majority of them are Nike minions and sworn servants of the Swoosh, we don’t realistically show up on their radar. Sure you can cite the occasional exception, but ALOT of kids that we’ve targeted the last couple of years “belong” to Nike, and aren’t going to buck the entrenched system. They’ve got WAY to many handlers reminding them of their “obligation”. If we go back to Nike we are now at least back in the conversation, full well knowing that we play by the rules.
A lot of great points made by many thanks for all the input. As mentioned before is that IMO a true Big Man has so many positives, especially if they can knock down free throws. Long scoreless periods become less often and for shorter periods of time. Feeding the post often creates better spacing and better shot quality on the perimeter. And last but not least creates lanes for cutters and finishers which in time is what I expect from Dawkins.
If and when we leave Adidas for Nike, JB will coincidently become a much better recruiter. He is unchallenged at identifying young talent, but when the vast majority of them are Nike minions and sworn servants of the Swoosh, we don't realistically show up on their radar. Sure you can cite the occasional exception, but ALOT of kids that we've targeted the last couple of years "belong" to Nike, and aren't going to buck the entrenched system. They've got WAY to many handlers reminding them of their "obligation". If we go back to Nike we are now at least back in the conversation, full well knowing that we play by the rules.
You have made mention of this before; but I always scratch my head as I have never heard it anywhere else.
If and when we leave Adidas for Nike, JB will coincidently become a much better recruiter. He is unchallenged at identifying young talent, but when the vast majority of them are Nike minions and sworn servants of the Swoosh, we don't realistically show up on their radar. Sure you can cite the occasional exception, but ALOT of kids that we've targeted the last couple of years "belong" to Nike, and aren't going to buck the entrenched system. They've got WAY to many handlers reminding them of their "obligation". If we go back to Nike we are now at least back in the conversation, full well knowing that we play by the rules.
You have made mention of this before; but I always scratch my head as I have never heard it anywhere else.
You’re kidding, right? Look up Rick Pitino and shoe influence on recruiting.
Mpbear14, as I recall you also thought Jalen Coleman really liked Michigan, but when push came to shove he opted to open up his recruitment to many other teams. I enjoyed your posts last summer and your insights, I'm just suggesting that the interest of the All Ohio Red kids maybe wasn't as high as it had seemed - or maybe there were a lot of factors in play. I do like Ahmad's film and he seems like a nice player.
You are probably right LAW. My only rebuttal to your post would be it’s JB’s responsibility to “wow” these kids. Get them more interested. I find it hard to believe that Esa Ahmad was initially knocking down Huggins door to go to West Va.
Here’s where I have a problem with JB’s recruiting. He seems to get turned off by a kid if he isn’t trying to run through a wall to play at Michigan. This isn’t directed at anyone in particular but I constantly read on message boards when we lose out on a big time recruit and settle for a Levert, Dawkins, Robinson or MAAR that these kids want to play for Michigan. These are the kids we need. Etc etc. Well of course they would run through a wall to play for Michigan, their alternative is Kent State, Rhode Island or Miami of Ohio. Granted, some of these recruits will pan out and be productive, but we aren’t going to be a consistent winner with them. It’s just not realistic. One more point I want to make and then I’ll shut up is we had an elite big guy when we made it to the national championship game. Quite frankly, that’s all that matters in my eyes, the NCAA tournament. It cannot be stressed enough how important having one of those on the roster is.
I think you are correct that JB isn’t a “hard sell” type of recruiter. Based on all I’ve heard and read, he thinks the university has a lot to offer, and he wants recruits to choose Michigan based off of the whole package. He doesn’t “show the love” that most high-level recruits are accustomed to. Sometimes I wish he’d do that, but it just isn’t who he is. At this point, I don’t see that changing.
I don’t think you can necessarily say that we can’t be a consistent winner with our plan B and C recruits (or lowel-level recruits in general), though. Teams have done it and continue to do it. But those teams win when they have a team full of upperclassmen. UVa and Wisconsin immediately come to mind. Oklahoma and Butler fit the bill this year.
I personally would prefer a healthy mix of upperclassmen who are physically mature and know the system combined with a few two-and-done (or even one-and-done) types. It’s unrealistic for anyone to all of a sudden expect JB to reel in every blue chipper he pursues.
If and when we leave Adidas for Nike, JB will coincidently become a much better recruiter. He is unchallenged at identifying young talent, but when the vast majority of them are Nike minions and sworn servants of the Swoosh, we don't realistically show up on their radar. Sure you can cite the occasional exception, but ALOT of kids that we've targeted the last couple of years "belong" to Nike, and aren't going to buck the entrenched system. They've got WAY to many handlers reminding them of their "obligation". If we go back to Nike we are now at least back in the conversation, full well knowing that we play by the rules.
You have made mention of this before; but I always scratch my head as I have never heard it anywhere else.
You’re kidding, right? Look up Rick Pitino and shoe influence on recruiting.
The shoe influence is very real – there’s no denying that. Nike/UA/Adidas are paying for these kids’ summers, giving them free gear, sponsoring AAU teams often coached by parents, wooing them in every which way and the idea is that will pay off with a mutually beneficial relationship in a couple of years when they are in the NBA.
Now not every kid on the Nike circuit is going to a Nike school and it’s impossible to paint it with that broad of a brush… but it’s a real effect that certainly changes some recruitments.
Even Jaylen Brown has spoken openly about his relationship with Adidas