Thought this was an interesting article.
A lot to digest here… The population stuff is the obvious factor, driving the majority of the talent decrease.
I have a hard time with all of the blame on the AAU coaches and prep schools as those are parts of the basketball landscape everywhere.
Some good discussion fodder though.
The prep schools are a problem because of the miles we can travel to play a game rule. The AAU coaches are an issue because they are pushing their own agendas while teaching how not to build a player(not all but most)
Transferring high schools within state has become a huge problem which ties in with AAU. With school of choice and private schools using their normal act kids just pick up and leave when they want.
I have said this for a long time and got shot down on the population reason from several posters. The economy hit Michigan as hard or harder than any other state in the country. When we had the years of Hairston and Crawford two top 10 recruits by most sites were right in our back yard and then all the talented players coming out of Flint.
Gonna be a while before it’s back to that.
Population is by far the #1 our hot beds have shrunk. Look at all the Detroit high schools that closed. Flint is a ghost town and Saginaw is hurting.
ugh, I can’t read any Graham Couch articles, even when they’re not terrible. His bias is way too apparent on most cases.
Did not read article so just going to ask… does he address the graduation rate? When some statistics show the urban districts in Michigan having as low as a 25% graduation rate it can not be helpful.
Very interesting article although it does not address why U-M hasn’t landed a Mr Basketball since Amaker’s final class whereas MSU has picked up 4 since that time.
(Maybe Winston will end that drought.)
Very interesting article although it does not address why U-M hasn't landed a Mr Basketball since Amaker's final class whereas MSU has picked up 4 since that time. (Maybe Winston will end that drought.)
Because that wasn’t the point of the article.
I know. I also know that some U-M folks like to rely on erudite arguments about demographics and socioeconomics to conceal (or excuse) the fact that the best talent in the state (such as it is) usually goes to MSU these days.
Couch columns can certainly provide some perspective into how people in East Lansing feel time to time. I think it misses a lot of key points and focused more on AAU problems, etc. which aren’t the primary problem here.
I know. I also know that some U-M folks like to rely on erudite arguments about demographics and socioeconomics to conceal the fact that the best talent in the state (such as it is) usually goes to MSU these days.
The article was basically about how Michigan State isn’t landing great prospects from Michigan and has had to go out of state.
The article makes complete sense from an MSU perspective because they already get most of the best in-state players. But when Michigan fans use the same argument about the decline of in-state HS ball to explain any and every recruiting woe, it just comes across as an excuse, hence my point about landing Mr Basketballs. But I know that was not the point of the article.
That’s a stupid argument. I want the best players regardless of where they are from. Am I glad we landed Stauskas and McGary rather than Valentine and Costello? Hell yeah I am… And we had a great chance with Mr. Basketball Monte Morris but Walton beat him to the punch. You just can’t speak in absolutes. Some years Mr. Basketball isn’t even great nationally and other years it’s just the best HS player and not the best college prospect
The article makes complete sense from an MSU perspective because they already get most of the best in-state players. But when Michigan fans use the same argument about the decline of in-state HS ball to explain any and every recruiting woe, it just comes across as an excuse, hence my point about landing Mr Basketballs. But I know that was not the point of the article.
When is the last time you saw that excuse being used? I haven’t seen it in a very long time. I think this is a bit of a straw man.
I want the best players too regardless of origin but if you can’t cultivate a recruiting advantage in your own backyard then where else are you going to cultivate one? I would trade all the talent in the midwest to be the first choice of every 5-star in southern California but that simply isn’t happening.
If you deny the existence of such local recruiting advantages then the next time we are recruiting a player from Columbus, please don’t say, “well, it’s a huge uphill battle because he grew up dreaming of playing for OSU.”
Edit: Point taken re Costello, happy we missed on that guy. I would argue that proximity actually helped Michigan land Stauskas. Obviously not in-state, but Michigan as a program looms pretty large in southern Ontario.
What argument are you trying to make?
Michigan has pulled top 40 kids from NJ, CA/OR, Indiana in recent years along with eventual pros from Canada and Ohio. U-M has really only landed Derrick Walton in-state, but I’m not sure that’s a problem is it? The kids they have landed out of state have generally been better than the options in-state.
Michigan’s roster isn’t going to be loaded with in-state kids any time soon – the talent and numbers aren’t there (and Michigan State is) – but there will continue to be a few. The bottom line is the talent level is down in-state, so it’s a good thing that Michigan has had success out of the state – something Michigan State is realizing as a reality as well according to the linked article.
What argument are you trying to make?Michigan has pulled top 40 kids from NJ, CA/OR, Indiana in recent years along with eventual pros from Canada and Ohio. U-M has really only landed Derrick Walton in-state, but I’m not sure that’s a problem is it? The kids they have landed out of state have generally been better than the options in-state.
Michigan’s roster isn’t going to be loaded with in-state kids any time soon – the talent and numbers aren’t there (and Michigan State is) – but there will continue to be a few. The bottom line is the talent level is down in-state, so it’s a good thing that Michigan has had success out of the state – something Michigan State is realizing as a reality as well according to the linked article.
I don’t know if it is or isn’t a problem. There are certainly talented players in the state Michigan has missed out on more so than Michigan State.
A lot of the elite kids in state have no interest in either Michigan or MSU. James Young and Josh Jackson are recent examples. On the other hand, Michigan has done really well in Indiana. The east coast is in play for us, too. We pulled Stauskas out of Canada and continue to recruit Canada. California, Florida, Philly, Illinois, Germany have all provided players to Michigan. Recruiting has changed.
We did pick up guys that were the one of the best in neighboring states: Burke and Irvin