Once again you mistate what people say to fit your narrative. Who said we had to be a “consistent final four contender” to draw fans? Of course, you know that is not true. And it is hilarious that you cite MSU as if it supports your point. They make the sweet sixteen almost every year and a final four almost every four years. That is the very definition of a consistently successful program which is why they continue to draw fans.
Nick Baumgardner put it very well with a tweet earlier. A fan said that they should be coming out to Crisler to support the team. What followed was a comment from Ace saying their 3rd best home win was against Northwestern. Nick went on to say and I can’t find the twitter discussion now that after what some of the fans saw with those 2 years they wouldn’t be fooled by what an actual good team and good season is.
But that’s the point - in those two years you reference, we: (1) advanced all the way to the championship game; and (2) won the Big Ten outright at 15-3, earned a #2 seed, and made the Elite Eight.
So if fans are only going to show up for seasons like that, that’s being a frontrunner at its finest, not a real fan. Some years are better than others, but good lord are we spoiled and stupid as a fan base if 23 wins and an NCAA bid is a reason to stay away from Crisler. I mean, just as recently as 2008, we were finishing our 10th consecutive year of not making the tourney at all.
See my post below.
U-M has always had a tough time filling Crisler. In year 2 of the Fab Five, some of the lesser nonconference games didn’t fill the arena.
That said, the declining product obviously hurts. The but-we-were-good-two-years-ago argument is fine for defending Beilein, but when discussing attendance, it’s inoperative. You can’t buy a ticket for two years ago, nor can you just blame the fans for being fairweather. Customer is always right.
IU has had some lean years and hasn’t done any better than us since Beilein has been here, yet they fill the place for every game. Basketball is religion down there. Football is religion up here. That’s he biggest factor.
I am not sure many people would say Michigan is in a better place right now than Indiana. Michigan isn’t bringing in many quality non conference opponents, they got smashed by a couple rivals and their last home game they were pretty lifeless for 30 minutes. I don’t think fans are blind to what they have witnessed on the court the past couple years. Get some exciting basketball in Crisler, get some good players, and bring in some quality opponents here and there and the place will be filled.
That, of course, completely avoids my point. IU fills their place even when they are losing or mediocre. Michigan does not even when we are winning. Michigan basketball fans only show up for a big winner, and even then we don’t sell out many games.
I don’t think we really know the answer to that. The national championship game/elite 8 are the exception, now we have the famine part. There isn’t an in between I bet if this team consistently had top 4 finishes in the conference, win a game or two every tournament you would see a very good fanbase. This isn’t a criticism of Beilein but only in 2 of his 9 years has Michigan won more than 1 game in the tournament it’s tough to create a buzz when fans ultimately look at how a team does in the tournament at how the season goes. Let’s say in 4 of his 9 years this program won 2 or more tournament games in his tenure it certainly changes perspective.
You’re right. If Michigan won 4 extra tournament games over 9 years, Crisler would be packed!
We now have a famine? We won 23 games. While not ideal, it is certainly not a famine. Michigan just doesn’t have exceptionally dedicated basketball fans relative to our football team and many of our peer institutions.
I really think that the admin can build attendance, but they have to use all the tools at their disposal. One thing universities are dumb not to take advantage of is their employees, who are usually incredibly faithful to the school and get very little back in terms of benefits. Offer them tix at sharply reduced prices for all the games that aren’t gonna be sellouts; they will work harder during the day.
Doesn’t help when our previous AD did everything he possibly could to alienate the most loyal of the Michigan basketball fans. There are plenty of factors that contribute (football school, on floor product taking a step back, weak home schedule, game times, etc) but during our highest point of hoops success in two decades you had students and long time season ticket holders relegated to the rafters in place of big money donors.
Look at their 23 wins
Penn St x2
That’s 14 of your 23 wins right there and they do include the Northern Michigan or LeMonye game so 15. Do you think fans should be buying into this year being a huge improvement?
It’s not 4 extra tournament games over 9 years it’s making the 2nd weekend of the NCAA tournament which Beilein has only made twice in his coaching tenure at Michigan. Way to totally miss the point.
How about this for a better perspective if you were accepted into Michigan when Beilein just took over this is what you saw 67-67 overall 30-42 in the B1G and a 2-2 record in the tournament. Not sure about you but I can’t blame any student for not wanting to buy season tickets. If you came in starting his 4th year that would have definitely been the high point of his tenure. If you started as a student last year Beilein is 39-39, 18-18 in the conference, 0-1 in the tournament.
Tell me again why students should rush out and be a season ticket holder? Hard to generate any type of buzz when it’s been very up and down.
That’s fine. You can be a fair-weather fan. Based on your posting history, I’m not sure you’re a fan at all, but that’s a different debate. Every fan base has frontrunners. Michigan basketball certainly has them. You basically made my point.
You missed the point again this is a discussion about student season ticket holders. I was putting it in the perspective a student would be viewing his 4 years. I also noticed you glossed over what 15 of the 23 wins looked like this year. I’m a fan but I am not going to jump for joy over the past 2 years.
If you want to start a thread discussing season ticket holders in general feel free but this is about the recent news of the student numbers being down. I am sure the students would love to be characterized as frontrunners or fair-weather go tell them that. I am sure they would tell you where to go.
I didn’t gloss over the point about the wins. I just ignored it because it’s a terrible point. All teams play a bunch of bodybag teams in non-conference. All teams play several bad teams in conference. Would 1 or 2 marquee wins make a big difference?
I’m sure many students would agree that they are front-runners. That’s fine. A huge chunk of students are out-of-staters that didn’t grow up cheering for Michigan.
I’m not even sure what point you are trying to make, and I doubt you are, either. So you are saying that students aren’t attending games because the team isn’t good, but we can’t call them front-runners? Sweet logic, Lupe.
Dylan is this kind of garbage needed? Lupe? Guys like Alum, LAW, Hail try to constantly pick fights with little jabs but they’re only jabs and zero haymakers because you bring nothing to the table totally glossing over the facts. Yes a few wins would make the difference look at MSU 1st round exit but who they beat at home Florida, Louisville, Wisconsin, Indiana, Maryland, Ohio St. At least the fans that go can see them beat teams that have a national profile.
Now to my point. I brought to the table the first 4 years of Beilein’s tenure which isn’t really great to generate a lot of buzz about the program. The next 4 years were his high point and the next two years have been quite low. It’s hard to create a buzz about the program when over 9 years it’s been quite the rollercoaster. You’re also failing to account for the fact students are only there for a 4 year snapshot.
So it’s your assertion that students aren’t coming out because the team isn’t good enough? But you say that the fans aren’t front-runners? That’s the definition of a front-runner. You are not very good at supporting your argument.
As others have pointed out, there are myriad reasons why students aren’t coming to the games. Performance could be one such reason. But for you to continue pointing to that as the sole reason while also saying that the students aren’t front-runners…it’s not an argument worth continuing.
I would say it’s not either/or. It’s both. The biggest reason is probably front-runner mentality, if only because hardcore fandom will push you take shitty circumstances to watch your team. But at the same time, the product has not been great most years and the home schedules have usually been just okay at best (and last year was horrible). Better home schedules/better student seating would do a bit to improve attendance, but it wouldn’t fix the main issue, which is that we don’t have a culture of basketball success that will draw people no matter what.
Agree. One factor is a large, loyal fan base that loves Michigan basketball. We do not have that, either among students or the general public. Another factor is the ups and downs of the team. When we’re up, we create enough excitement to lure in the casual fans. When we’re down, only the hard core show up consistently. Not that complicated. Interestingly, every year since Breslin was opened in 1990, MSU has outdrawn Michigan on a per game basis. That includes the Fab 5 period, the 1994 elite 8 team, and Izzo’s first couple of seasons when MSU was not very good.