There has been a lot of discussion about the quality of Michigan’s '17 class. The recruits are all high 3* or 4* and we have 4 kids in the class. MSU doesnt have any commits to this point in the class, but are in the mix for quite a few 5* (with agknowledgment that rankings dont mean everything, but do show a general trend for the level of recruit). Which position would you rather be in at this point: Michigan or MSU?
Depends on how likely/confident MSU (or any school) feels about getting their top targets in order to really evaluate a bird in hand team (UM) vs an elite target/wait it out team (MSU). MSU is in good position with Eastern as of right now, and barring a UK/Duke offer, Bowen may head to MSU as well.
In terms of comparing the 2 classes, all depends on how UM closes. If we end with any of Jackson, Bowen, Cain, the class will no doubt be very good, and a 15-20 type class. Right now we have (in my opinion rather than composite ranking) 1 75-100 type in Poole, 1 125 type in Livers, and one 250-300 type in Brooks. Pretty good balance and an overall upgrade from what we’ve seen the past few year. Those guys probably aren’t instant impact types, but think they have the skill and/or athletic upside to be upper tier role players in a few years that we haven’t been able to obtain in the past few classes save Mo Wagner.
If the thinking behind us being unable to get Eastern was competition at his preferred position (PG), then I dont see why MSU should be a better option. Eastern would have to beat out X and Brooks at UMich, and Cash Winston at MSU. If anything the competition seems stiffer at MSU.
Or am I mistaken in thinking that Eastern was ever a valid target, in the first place?
No, we didn’t get Eastern by choice (the staff’s choice), and that is a fact. UM was the preferred destination for Nojel and family up until that point. We are no longer recruiting Nojel Eastern.
That’s the question right… does our contingency feel more comfortable with what we have in hand vs what we think is in the bush? Looking at the list of targets that MSU has and what my expectation of what our class rounds into, I would prefer where we are. We have a solid class that could be improved with another high level add even if the chances that we land one arent as high as MSU’s. give me the bird(s) in hand.
For Michigan, reality is that we aren’t going to land very many, if any, elite guys (whether you want to consider Bowen that is a different story), so I think the UM approach this year was very solid this year aside from a few instances. I like the class as a whole so far irrelevant of what MSU does. Are we missing an NBA/triple threat type (can shoot, finish, distribute off the bounce), sure we are, but overall we’ve improved the roster from a physical/athletic and/or skill standpoint at 2 positions (2 and the 4), and hopefully we can improve at the 3.
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Is Matthews not improving our 3?
No doubt about it, guess I was considering him a 16. Probably does make more sense to include him funcationally as a 17. I LOVE the Matthews pickup.
Think Matthews probably has more of an impact on the defensive side of the court, but if he can improve his shot, perhaps he’s the type of 2 way player we so need so bad.
If Donnal doesn’t get a 5th year and there is very little development at the 5 can that nullify any improvements at the 2 and 4? I only ask that because in 2017 Michigan will have a new PG unless it’s MAAR but I don’t think Beilein will give the keys to MAAR so it’s most likely Simpson.
I’ve seen him play 20 times at least and saw what happened to him last year coming. Murray can shoot amazingly well and once Matthews confidence was shaken, that was kind of it. I think he’s our best player in '17 along with MAAR. Those 2 can make our team pretty darn good. I also don’t see Cain playing much with Matthews in the fold. What’s Cains role if he comes here? Fwiw cain has grown on me, but I feel Matthews is a step up in terms of overall player.
As mentioned in the other thread, I think most would agree Jamal is far superior to Matthews in terms of shooting. I’d also think most would agree that shooting is prioritized more than any single facet in a John Beilein coached team. Taking those 2 in conjunction with one another, I don’t think its hard to see Cain’s role early in his career. Jamal can get PT as a freshman as a designated shooter and someone that can finish on the baseline and in transition. As he adds muscle, he has the potential to be a really good 2 way player as a sophomore.
Fair assessment. If Matthews is staying around all the years he’s eligible, I don’t see a way Cain would start over a 2-3-4 of Poole, Matthews and livers.
Look, whether most want to admit or not, we needed big upgrades at basically every position on the roster moving forward. Roughly speaking this is what I see from 16 & 17:
PG - we stood pat with X replacing Walton. Nice role player but probably not a guy that is a #1 or #2 option
SG - upgraded with Poole - better handle, vision, and passing at same age in relation to MAAR, probably best suited as a #2 or #3 option
SF - definitely upgraded with Matthews - just a far superior athlete Irvin/DR, and has a better handle at same age in relation to both. Should be a huge upgrade defensively on the perimeter
PF - upgraded with Livers - will have marginal dropoff for shooting in relation to DR, but will have reasonable upgrade in terms of perimeter and post defense
Guess I just disagree, I can see him starting over all 3. Certainly has more upside than Poole and Livers, don’t think that’s really debatable. Already a better shooter than Matthews and Livers. Better finisher than Poole and Livers.
Here’s my skill pecking order
Handling - Poole, Matthews, Cain, Livers
Shooting - Cain, Poole, Livers, Matthews
Rebounding - Cain, Livers, Matthews Poole,
Passing - Poole, Cain/Matthews, Livers
Perimeter Defense - Matthews, Cain, Livers, Poole
Cain is near the top of the list for most categories, not hard to see why he will play. Versatility more than any other player as a 2 way option. Matthews has a LONG way to go in terms of shooting, Poole has a LONG way to go defensively and athletically, Livers has LONG way to go in terms of ball skills. Cain just needs strength at this point
Cain is a better shooter than Poole?
Yes, when playing vs legit comp, he is. At least during the 3 months of live games I was able to view, and it wasn’t really close
Would you say that there is a wide margin between Poole and Livers in shooting? Or livers and Mathews?
Obviously Matthews is not on the same level in terms of shooting in relation to the other 3. In my opinion, Cain, Poole, and Livers are all good shooters.
Livers - shooting percentage is probably close to the production we’ll see out of him in college because his shot selection will likely remain the same - catch and shoot opportunities out of pick and pop action or drive and kicks. His mechanics are very consistent from midrange and distance.
Poole - shot selection is an issue with him, and his percentage reflects that. He has what I call the ‘Stu’ tendency, meaning he’ll opt to take a 25 foot shot when it can be a 22 foot shot. He also takes ill advised shots off the bounce at times. I think Jordan will be a really good shooter in catch and shoot situations in college, but his shot selection will have to improve if his percentage is going to be high 30s. I think he has a good enough handle and change of direction to be a quality shooter off the bounce.
Cain - mechanics are very consistent, prefers midrange off the bounce as opposed to 3 off the bounce and that’s why he is a better shooter than Poole right now…he knows his game and what is effective. Also very difficult to deter Cain’s shot at 6’6 with good athleticism. Think he will be a 36-39% shooter from distance in college.
Sorry if I missed the information elsewhere. What are Cain’s highschool shooting percentages?
37.3% in EYBL this season. For context here are Livers and Poole
Poole - 27% on 100 attempts
Livers - 37.1% on 62 attempts
Cain - 37.3% on 59 attempts