There was this…
@MaizeBlue10 You seem to be awfully certain this guy has a personality defect. Unless you’re privy to some 1st hand information, it seems like an extreme position to take.
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Can’t say that I think someone is a good person when they believe their salary DESERVES to be tripled after one year. (Laughably as a top 10 paid coach.) A good not great year at best as well. And can’t say that’s a good person when they get insulted with offers in the low to mid $2 million range after just one year of that good but not great season.
I call that person spoiled and a piece of crap. Sorry.
(Looked back at the articles of how it supposedly went down. He never gave them a chance to counter because of the fractured relationship but they did talk raise before.)
Who said he thought he deserved it? You’re making all kinds of inferences based on superficial information. Maybe Illinois opened the coffers for him and he didn’t need to ask for it. So he had a crappy relationship with his AD…who’s fault was that? Do you even know? Yeah…“supposedly”.
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Sources in articles from reading back on it. How is that incorrectly inferred but a posters rumor is acceptable?
you can argue all day if Underwood worth 3m a year but I won’t blame anyone for taking a 200% raise. Underwood was well above 50 and had not made much before OK St. The Illinois job basically gives him financial security for a comfortable retirement. I would’ve jumped too no matter what.
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OK, so you’re basing your animus on a reporter who writes incoherent things like “Not all of it delved on the contract.”
Maybe it went like this:
BU - Illinois offered me $3 mil
MH - We can’t pay you that
MH to reporter - Underwood asked for $3 mil
people throw all kinds of shade, especially to the homer sports reporter.
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@Kenny @bebopson best way for me to describe how I see Underwood is this analogy:
Underwood is the office worker who takes longer breaks, BSs a lot with his coworkers and works inefficiently. As a result, he has to stay later to get his work done.
Others do their job more efficiently and leave on time. Both they and Underwood ultimately do their job.
Underwood is the guy who comes in and asks for an early promotion using the argument he’s working harder than everyone, which he thinks his proof is how late he’s sending out emails and staying late in the office.
Ok St AD: Saw through all his BS and rightfully said see ya, good luck.
Illinois AD: Believes they’re getting this hard worker, throws a bunch of money at him.
At the end of the day, I don’t respect or care for those type of people. They BS their way to more money without regard for others. If your argument is you can’t blame him for taking more money, I say how he got that money is crap. Good for him but again, karma has a way of coming back at you. My OPINION is that’s happening with the players leaving.
I think it’s that Poole makes great plays. Few will deny that. It’s the great plays for the other team (bad d, turnovers) that will hold him back if anything does. Hopefully he increases his volume and efficiency, bc dang he can MAKE plays!
@umhoops the top 25 players preseason list is usually with inside the hall right? (Indiana site)
I predict if/when they do the list this year Zavier is above iggy and in the top 25, and within 3 spots of Poole. Defense is so often overlooked.
How the hell is Brad Underwood parallel to any of these? If you’re gonna throw out an analogy like this you have to give reasons why he’s these things.
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I am not arguing on his competence and reasons of massive exodus at Illinois, but Underwood has zero moral obligation to stay in OKSt.
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He’s so lazy that he won three straight regular and tournament conference titles at SFA, then got Okie St to a .500 conference record a year after they went 3-15 and had them playing an exciting brand of basketball.
Gonna need some explanation on that analogy.
Obviously, Illinois hasn’t gotten off to a great start with him but they were also in pretty rough shape without him.
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The analogy was used to show someone who thinks they’re worth more than what they truly deserve and that they went about it in an unprofessional manner.
@Kenny I don’t disagree with you either. He definitely didn’t have a moral obligation to stay at OK St. (It’s a whole other argument on how stupid Illinois was to pay that money, but I’m not blaming him for taking it.)
Where I BELIEVE I see through him is how he went about it. The way this played out, ultimately irregardless of any article or rumor, I BELIEVE he went about it unprofessionally. If you’re a good person with morals, I still don’t BELIEVE you leave after one year. Take the fair raise that was offered and stick with the university that YOU signed a contract for and gave you this opportunity. Don’t go there to begin with if your goal was to look good and chase money immediately, even after one year.
@tarverine , how do I think that analogy is accurate? Answer to that is the guy was handed a SFA program coming off a 1st place finish and was stocked with the upcoming two-time conference player of the year. He didn’t build it, he piggybacked off the previous success and a good situation. (@bacon141) At OK St, again, not his players. Yes, that team was 3-15 the previous year in conference, but they had talent already there.
Plus, what exactly was overly impressive about his year at OK St? They were 8-10 in conference and a 9 seed both years before Ford got canned at 3-15. (5 seed before that too.) 8-10 again this year. Underwood went 9-9 in conference and was obviously a 10 seed as we know.
Seeing that and seeing someone think they should be paid top money, that’s completely laughable to me. He hasn’t built a program at all. Unfortunately, people can act entitled for no reason nowadays because schools like Illinois employ dumb ADs.
Here we are months later and there’s a mass exodus at Illinois. It’s not a big deal when previous coach’s players leave. It’s understandable. It’s a red flag when this many are leaving. It’s a MAJOR red flag when all three of your recruits already left after one year.
Everyone here can call me wrong, call me crazy, I don’t care. To me, I see all the above and I think this guy is a piece of crap. I don’t see someone who has built a program from the ground up or turned a program around. (No he didn’t turn OK St around.)
All the believes are capitalized because again, this is my opinion. Obviously there are no direct facts on what went down. It’s my read and belief of how he left and what’s going on at Illinois.
One day ago:
And then there’s this…
I’ll remember to thank Brady Hoke for Michigan football’s good 2015 season.
You are incredibly intense in this viewpoint with it being seemingly solely based off of him getting paid by Illinois, despite him giving OK St. a chance to up their contract. That’s not rational. In fact, It seems like you’re far too stubborn in your views on him (biased in some way, it seems) to have a rational look at the situation.
Basically, even if what you said was actually true and he’s a mediocre coach (which I believe to be 100% false), calling a dude what you’ve called him in this discussion seems like a huge overreaction.
Yes, it can be all of:
- Stupid of Illinois to offer him $3 million
- Morally wrong to leave after one year if you were offered low $2 mil
- Justifiable to take the Illinois offer
If someone was given a situation where they were told I can give you a raise but we’d have to lay someone off to do it, I personally think it would be wrong morally to take the raise. I can also see the argument of taking the raise to look out for yourself. There’s no right or wrong answer factually.
Therefore, in this case I would’ve taken the low $2’s raise and stayed loyal. I don’t agree with him leaving that quick. However, I understand the actual want to make more money when offered.
That is far from stubborn when I have admitted my personal opinion and viewpoint but understand others don’t see it that way.
No point in continuing the back and forth when we both have strong opinions on this. I see it one way, you/others see it another. I have no issues with that. I’m not trying to sway you or anybody else. By all means if Underwood does well next year or two years from now, I happily would be okay seeing you or anyone shove it back in my face. It doesn’t bother me if I end up wrong.
Also, please do thank Hoke. No clue how anyone in the fanbase doesn’t realize he left a talented team for Harbaugh. Absolutely hilarious example too because Hoke is a perfect example of Underwood, so thank you. Hoke was a good mid major coach, parlayed it into one good year (I say great year) at Michigan with Rodriguez players and couldn’t build a program at a high level. Underwood is about to fall down the same path.
It’s a dumb analogy because Illinois obviously thought he was worth 3 million. He wasn’t out in the streets begging for it. I imagine Illinois approach’s him first, offered him 3 million. OSU opted not to match. He tripled his salary. Nobody in their right mind would turn that down and nobody in their right mind would criticize it. Nothing shady about it. NCAAB is big business. We shouldn’t be surprised when ADs, coaches and players act in such a way.
He had a great tenure at SFA. Had the #1 AdjO according to Kenpom at OSU. Pretty impressive in your first year. Doesn’t mean he’s guaranteed to succeed at Illinois. But let’s not act like he’s a bad coach. He’s fairly accomplished.
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This discussion is absurd. Underwood is a good coach, he’s not a “pathetic piece of crap” for doing what any rational human would do and taking the Illinois job given the circumstances, and he has a tough rebuild down there that naturally will cause some players to look for a win now situation. I’m out.
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Left unsaid is that OK St. paid Underwood far less than other coaches in the Big 12. They did the same thing with his replacement. They hire cheap coaches and promise them a raise if the coach is successful. That’s not much of a commitment to basketball. It may just be the least desirable job in high major CBB and that’s by design.
Yep, he’s right. Maybe at 20 these kids really don’t make particularly good choices. Don’t they have anyone who can reasonably and intelligently help them with these decisions? Will they listen? I actually hope Tony Carr somehow, someday makes it back home…to the NBA. And if he doesn’t, man, I hope he finishes his degree.