People listen to Brian's opinion about basketball? Come on, really?Ohio Northern
You got me again!
And yes, me playing 4 years, 1 of those years for a coach in the hall of fame at lowly Ohio Northern makes me far more qualified to assess all aspects of the game of basketball over Brian at Mgoblog.
Uh, er, using this rationale, none of us should be questioning JB.
lol at "my tax dollars pay his salary". The correct stupid argument for a basketball coach is "I buy tickets and pay his salary".Hi Pete, I see you didnāt have a meaningful contribution. In terms of basketball, but nevertheless I appreciate your take on things.
Haha nothing personal, just those type of comments are a pet peeve of mine and as it was stated by another commenter, state money has nothing to do with athletics at UofM. As far as basketball analysis, not much to add that hasnāt been covered in this 11 page thread. Davis on his own is not a big issue since he seems to have some skill for his size and a guy who could develop. But when taking into account the roster imbalance and lack of top level talent itās puzzling.
The 2016-17 and beyond roster is scary right now, but Iām going to wait until at least the end of April to see how things shake out with some other targets before I start pouring a glass of bleach for myself. I expect to hear about Austin going on medical fairly soon and I think that will coincide with a 2015 recruit. Iād love it to be Brown but Williams is probably more likely.
Bottom line is I expect to see us add 2 guard/wings between 2015 and 2016 one way or another. If that doesnāt happen or the additions turn out to be more developmental guys Iāll be far more concerned about our future outlook as a program.
From what I know, the tea leaves suggest when all is said and done, Davis will be classed as a '17 recruit which makes all of this conversation more or less moot.I know many will disagree, but frankly, if Davis in fact doesnāt end up at UM until '17, IMO, it qualifies this as a very good maneuver by the coaching staff. That would mean, the kid we see now, will have 2 more years of HS ball/AAU ball and then a prep year at a school that will likely place him against very good competition.
Like everyone else, I was confounded when I heard Davis was offered and he committedā¦but I just felt like there was more to this story, which is why I didnāt bother reacting until I could get a better sense of things. Well, if in fact Davis doesnāt come until '17, from my perspective, I am no longer confounded and I think the move is a very good one.
Again, I hope this is true, but where can we find this information? Canāt see anybody talking about it on Twitter, or elsewhere. Who mentioned that possibility of him coming only in 17?
Other than that, I completely agree with your approach. This whole craziness and anger that happened since last night is not very productive until we know more.
^^^^This in a nutshell. Itās really scary to think our 3-4 year outlook is premised on 1-2 recruits over the next year given the staffās recruiting track record.
From what I know, the tea leaves suggest when all is said and done, Davis will be classed as a '17 recruit which makes all of this conversation more or less moot.I know many will disagree, but frankly, if Davis in fact doesnāt end up at UM until '17, IMO, it qualifies this as a very good maneuver by the coaching staff. That would mean, the kid we see now, will have 2 more years of HS ball/AAU ball and then a prep year at a school that will likely place him against very good competition.
Like everyone else, I was confounded when I heard Davis was offered and he committedā¦but I just felt like there was more to this story, which is why I didnāt bother reacting until I could get a better sense of things. Well, if in fact Davis doesnāt come until '17, from my perspective, I am no longer confounded and I think the move is a very good one.
Thanks for the info. That would make some sense. It certainly seemed like there had to be more going on then we were aware of as the roster balance was all out of whack otherwise.
I wonāt paste the info, but the info is from The Wolverine Premium Forum and Chris Balas puts this idea out there, backed up by direct quotes from parties involved in Davisā recruitment.
When you read it, it makes perfect sense.
More likely that Hatch becomes a preferred walk-on than a medical. He can afford the tuition, and he could keep playing. This assumes that Beilein is thinking about using that scholarship.
I won't paste the info, but the info is from The Wolverine Premium Forum and Chris Balas puts this idea out there, backed up by direct quotes from parties involved in Davis' recruitment.When you read it, it makes perfect sense.
Thanks so much for this information. Although we are not 100 percent sure, this makes SO MUCH sense.
Iām not a āfollow Beilein blindlyā type of guy, but he is definitely a very smart person. It just didnāt make any sense, without an explanation such as thisā¦
Iām actually feeling positive about this too if he ends up being a '17 recruit.
Right, folks may have many questions about how he evaluates kids, who he offers and how he goes about selling himself and the program, which is fine, but he isnāt stupid.
All of the worry goes away when we land 1-2 playmakers at guard/wing. Until thenā¦
Hereās the reality. Following our title game run, we have concentrated on elite recruits and have taken commitments from lesser rated guys only when the elite players havenāt panned out. Think of the 2014 kids we recruited hard at the outset: Chatman (got him), KBD, Blackmon, Looney, Booker, Blueitt (stopped recruiting him), Edwards (same). Lots of five star guys there. And then 2015 - Kennard, Coleman, Brunson, Ellenson, Prince Ali (never visited, no offer). All elite talents.
In the meantime, weāve decided not to offer several kids who, had they been offered from 2007-2011, would have been great recruits for us during that time period: Jordan Barnett, Bryant McIntosh, AJ Turner, Sedrick Barefield, Hyron Edwards, Tyler Williams, Matt McQuaid, Barrett Benson, Kyle Ahrens, Matt Moyer, and Kyle Guy. Those are the type of recruits (other than McGary) who comprised our 2013 team - kids ranked in the top 50-120 or so when they committed.
It made perfect sense to chase higher rated kids after 2013, so long as they showed real interest, which seemingly they did. Why would you offer a Jordan Barnett if you think you have a good shot at a Blackmon? But ultimately, we havenāt gotten those kids, and perhaps the guys we āsettledā for (Dawkins, MAAR) arenāt as good as other top 50-150 types we could have landed. It also doesnāt help that Chatman - a five star prospect - simply didnāt play like one this year.
If we miss out on our top 2016 recruits - Leaf (already gone), Thornton, Winston, Ramsey, Towns, Langford, Battle - then perhaps we return to focusing on the top 50-150 type kids again, where we enjoyed a lot of success previously both in recruiting and on the court. Obviously, we have shown we can win with kids like that, so long as a few of them outperform their recruiting rankings, and weāve been pretty good at finding those type of kids.
Certainly, itās disappointing we havenāt really gotten ANY of our top 2014 and 2015 targets (other than Chatman, who was a Plan A all along), but once again, the level of competition for those guys is exponentially greater. Pulling a Kennard away from Duke, UK, and OSU is way harder than pulling Burke away from Cincinnati, or Stauskas away from Iowa State.
For whatever reason, the 2013 title run didnāt lead to a number of five star recruits. In all likelihood, that same thing will happen to Wisconsin after this year, too. The downside with five star guys is that they leave your program after a year or two, and to sustain the same level of excellence, you have to keep replacing them with other five star guys. Even if we got a few here and there, Iām not sure weāll ever be equipped (under JB or any coach) to recruit like that. So, maybe targeting 3-4 year players, and targeting a deep tourney run every 3-4 years, is the future. Sure, Iād prefer 2013/2014 every year, but if thatās the future, it sure beats 1999-2008.
Right, folks may have many questions about how he evaluates kids, who he offers and how he goes about selling himself and the program, which is fine, but he isn't stupid.
I love Beilein and I just cringe thinking about what potential he could have with great talent. Thereās a good reason Coach K dropped us from his schedule. Few coaches want to face Beilein in the tourney.
But what if he had better talent? I mean, seriously, he could load up his fingers with rings.
Right, folks may have many questions about how he evaluates kids, who he offers and how he goes about selling himself and the program, which is fine, but he isn't stupid.I love Beilein and I just cringe thinking about what potential he could have with great talent. Thereās a good reason Coach K dropped us from his schedule. Few coaches want to face Beilein in the tourney.
But what if he had better talent? I mean, seriously, he could load up his fingers with rings.
Amen Jblair. Thatās how I feel. JB is a tremendous coach. Heās one of the best. I want the best coaching the best. Weāve waited so long to be in the position we are in which is why I think people are a little on edge.
We all know how quick this can all go away.
Couldn't help but to remember this - I recall the rationalizing from a good portion of folks did when JB essentially told Coleman to look elsewhere. I believe that move is rally going to haunt us down the road.We have no more information on that decision than we did then. If Robinson flames out and Coleman is a stud, then you can gloat.
Actually, thatās not true. We have information that Robinson is doing great. You donāt believe that yet, so we shall see.
Wasnāt gloating, more of a roster balance thing. Coleman definitely wasnāt Thornton in terms of creating, but certainly would have been an upper tier piece at a position of need.
Also, we had reports of Max āmakes everything in practiceā, Doyle was ābeastingā, Kam āgrasps things quicker than anyoneāā¦reports, everyone has em
Umm yes I did say he was kicking DONNALāS behind every day I saw them. Isnāt it quite obvious why? Or that I was speaking the truth?
People listen to Brian's opinion about basketball? Come on, really?Ohio Northern
You got me again!
And yes, me playing 4 years, 1 of those years for a coach in the hall of fame at lowly Ohio Northern makes me far more qualified to assess all aspects of the game of basketball over Brian at Mgoblog.
You use the term āplayingā loosely! Every time I caught a game you were a mop up duty guy. You didnāt have quite the highlight bench mob reel that Dakich has though! Everyone has things they can improve upon I guess!
I love Beilein and I just cringe thinking about what potential he could have with great talent. There's a good reason Coach K dropped us from his schedule. Few coaches want to face Beilein in the tourney.But what if he had better talent? I mean, seriously, he could load up his fingers with rings.
Call me a homer, but I actually think Beileinās success in talent identification is hurting him now (call it one small reason why our run is actually working against us, though to be clear, the net result should still be a big benefit). Specifically, if Beilein starts eyeing a second-tier guy (defined as top 20-100), I think that perks up the radar of guys like Matta, Izzo, Steve Alford, maybe even a Coach K or Calipari in certain circumstances, where maybe they take a deeper look than they would have, and start to see what Beilein sees.
āJust stop it.ā Dude, you are so far out of bounds it isnāt funny. You think just repeating yourself endlessly by saying something sucks makes it so? Even as more and more evidence comes in? A bit pathological.
Maybe itās because Iāve been a huge fan of this site from the start, and always loved the highly respectful tone that was maintainedāIām finding the atmosphere here particularly poisonous, disappointing. Just going to confine comments to articles on the home page from here on, refrain from becoming a part of the problem.
Every year there are only so many top players on the board and Kentucky is looking to take 4 or 5 of them and 2 or 3 to the likes of Duke, Kansas, Arizona and UNC. The next tier of MSU, UCONN, Syracuse, Virginia, UCLA, OSU, IU etc. are going after 1 or 2 of them. There are only so many to go around and some of those will be tied to local schools and some just will not fit our style/needs. We can and should continue to go after them, but we are going to have more misses than hits. Fortunately, we have a staff that is very good at identifying and developing the lesser knowns or in getting the stars before they blow up. Beileinās system is working, sometimes too well (early entries).
We should probably play a few games with these kids before we freak out. JB knows who he wants and how to build a winning culture. It seems like the University is just fine with his teams and their success. Look at the train wreck he inherited, you could barely get a 4 star in the door let alone get to the tourney. I think the kids he recruits fits the culture of the University with integrity and character. Go Blue!
Hmm. It seems a few people are getting a little melty/panicky in here. I see you guys are nervous about the imbalance on the roster which is warranted. I guess I would be more nervous about 2017 than say 2016. In 2016 I see us having walton and rahkman as guys who can handle the ball. I know some might not think rahkman can do that, but just in the half a year we saw him I am more than confident in his abilities to do many things, including playing point on occasion.
I also donāt think its far fetched to believe that Dawkins will develop a off the bounce type game. Not as a pg per se, but as a guy who can create his own shot and create his own looks. Also even though everyone including myself flamed him for most of the year, I see good ball handling/passing skills from Kam chatman as well. Yes he didnāt finish or shoot well, but you could see brief flashes where he broke guys down and just didnāt know how to finish it yet.
So in brief I am not worried, mainly due to my complete faith in MAAR/Dawkins. Also I see wilson becoming a pf for us in the long run for what its worth. My only fear is Dawkins blows up even further and leaves us way earlier then expected. I actually feel like I saw equal if not more from him than Stauskas. Just my two cents.
Also Davis reminds me slightly of ostertag, and I actually think he could end up being a pretty rugged and tough forward for us which I thought was one of our main beefs of what was lacking with beilens lineups. He reminds me a lot of a guy who would have ended up at michigan st in not to long, who would be at least physically pounding and taxing are big men for years to come. Just my long winded two cents.