Matt D, I’m sorry brother but most of your evaluations are just sorely inaccurate. He is a scorer who can score any type of way…can’t disprove that. He has a good handle… Can’t disprove that. A better handle and ball skills then a THJr at the same stage & just as good as MAAR at the same stage.
He gets NO elevation in his J, but he is playing well vs decent competition.
Bottom line to me is, he’s a scorer. A scorer, regardless of how he does it, typically flourishes in JB’s system.
Only seen a bit of film on Cumberland. Handle seems decent enough, with some room for improvement and I think he can do so with this staff (THJ, Irvin and Caris all tightened up their handle in college). I am more worried about his slow and non jumping jumper. Obviously that can be addressed as well. But he does not solve our need for a primary creator. I think his strength is an attractive component and something we haven’t really had here. I don’t mind him if we have room, but I’d like to get a primary ball handler or two before just to fill that need.
Matt D, I'm sorry brother but most of your evaluations are just sorely inaccurate. He is a scorer who can score any type of way...can't disprove that. He has a good handle... Can't disprove that. A better handle and ball skills then a THJr at the same stage & just as good as MAAR at the same stage. He gets NO elevation in his J, but he is playing well vs decent competition. Bottom line to me is, he's a scorer. A scorer, regardless of how he does it, typically flourishes in JB's system.
Honestly, I think we are just working with completely different standards…if you think THJ had a good handle in HS…then there probably isn’t much for us to discuss because that is just absurd. So to evidence that Vick has a good handle by claiming superiority to THJ in HS is basically shooting your own argument down.
Elite Ballhandlers - DTJ/Corey Sanders
Good/Great Ballhandlers - Winston/Josh Jackson
Above Average/Good Ballhandlers - Josh Langford/Jamal Murray
Average/Above Average Ballhandlers - Tyus Battle (although he may have gotten better, but he’s been injured), Devon Daniels
Average/Below Average Ballhandlers - Damien Jefferson
Vick has NO left hand at all…how the heck can you say he’s a good ballhandler?
Cumberland a top performer at Spiece per Scout
Cumberland a top performer at Spiece per Scout
Any opinion on Simpson, his point guard? Is he a potential target? His size is certainly not ideal.
Cumberland a top performer at Spiece per ScoutAny opinion on Simpson, his point guard? Is he a potential target? His size is certainly not ideal.
Don’t know if there is any interest from the staff. Definitely a PG, I like hime more than Aiken…but size is a concern in my view. Doesn’t shoot great from the outside (low release), but his assist rate is pretty good…from everything I’ve read he is a really good defender, and his steal rate in EYBL reflects that. Also, his FT rate is good for a kid that size, but not in Aiken/Walton territory. Appears to be an good finisher in the paint because he has an excellent floater.
I wouldn’t mind a Cumberland/Goodin or Cumberland/Brown mix for the backcourt.
I like the longer and/or quicker guys but I just want some more aggressive players for the backcourt that can break you down on the dribble.
Ballhandling is absolutely essential to our current needs moving forward. Just need players that have the ability to draw a secondary defender to open things up. Cumberland is the guy on the receiving end, not the guy that is going to create the necessary space. Get the primary guy first, then worry about the rest.
I wouldn't mind a Cumberland/Goodin or Cumberland/Brown mix for the backcourt.I like the longer and/or quicker guys but I just want some more aggressive players for the backcourt that can break you down on the dribble.
I would be very pleased with either of those pairings. I share some of the concerns re: Cumberland and whether his game will translate well to college. But I really like his aggressiveness and how he just bullies people. I’d love some of that attitude on our team.
THIS is what you label elite ballhandling/change of direction
FWIW, Sanders dribbled the ball 24 times in that clip…
All of those great moves got him a contested, step-back long 2-pointer.
Yeah, I love great ball handling as much as the next guy but this Harlem Globetrotter stuff followed by an ill-advised chuck isn’t exactly what I’m looking for in a PG. Still, I hear you – I have been known to watch a Jahii Carson highlight reel or two when I’m having a bad day.
Could very well step in and become a Pro down the line. Game reminds of two Former Michigan players who went on to play in the NBA. Tariq Abdul-Wahad (Oliver Saint-Jean) and Bernard Robinson.
Seems like Cumberland could be a decent fit as a power guard, certainly would be a unique skillset on the roster.
Obviously you don’t want a guy taking an ill advised fadaway from 18ft when he clearly had a path to the basket after he broke his ankles the first time (and Sanders can damn sure finish)…the whole point is that this is what elite ballhandling looks like. I think some people here see film that reflects a guy getting to the basket and equates that with great ballhandling (IE Cumberland)…nobody in there sane mind thinks Cumberland has Sanders/DTJ level handle, not does he possess Winston handle, nor doees he posses Langford handle…he’s an average ballhandler at best.
All of those great moves got him a contested, step-back long 2-pointer.Not what it got him, what he chose to take. He could've went to the basket and dunked on the entire team if that's what he felt like doing..............believe me. Now if you want to question his decision making, I'm good with that...........because I agree. From an ability standpoint though, there is no questioning that...............that is ELITE.
@MattD is all in on Corey Sanders… So should we expect Rutgers to be a contender in the Big Ten this year?
Well, in fairness, it seemed like the point of that play was to break as many ankles as possible, with scoring a mere afterthought. Now, if you showed a reel of Dennis Smith, who has truly elite handles and a flat-out killer instinct… that would be a different story altogether. But yeah, nothing I have seen from Cumberland says “ball handling”. Ditto with Aiken.
(Mind you I disagree with you on Murray’s handles – while he doesn’t have any small-pg-style compensatory flashy stuff, his ball control, change of direction and ambidexterity are pretty darn solid for his role and position. Hence his ability to take over games against any and all competition.)
Well, in fairness, it seemed like the point of that play was to break as many ankles as possible, with scoring a mere afterthought. Now, if you showed a reel of Dennis Smith, who has truly elite handles and a flat-out killer instinct.... that would be a different story altogether. But yeah, nothing I have seen from Cumberland says "ball handling". Ditto with Aiken.(Mind you I disagree with you on Murray’s handles – while he doesn’t have any small-pg-style compensatory flashy stuff, his ball control, change of direction and ambidexterity are pretty darn solid for his role and position. Hence his ability to take over games against any and all competition.)
Murray is a good ballhandler for sure(as noted above)…lacks great change of direction in a halfcourt set. But you are correct, functionally, he controls the ball.
@MattD is all in on Corey Sanders... So should we expect Rutgers to be a contender in the Big Ten this year?
I was thinking National Championship!