Reread your 2nd to last sentence.
1 Like
I have never seen anyone even remotely imply that only Michigan improves as seasons wear on. This is just squabbling.
I don’t quite understand the bitterness. Explain a little, if you care to. Because I don’t think that too many people are going to just break down and join you in the relentless negativity–smart people look for the silver linings, the reasons. So much of your argument is with Beilein and the paradigm itself. And that just ain’t changing for a little bit.
Buncha bad breaks after some very good times. Agree next season has to really improve. Beyond that. . .
2 Likes
I see it on every Michigan forum out there whether it’s football or basketball.
It’s one thing to look at silver linings, it’s another thing to bury your head in the sand about the ongoing problems in this program. I have high expectations for the program. When those expectations aren’t remotely close to being met, I voice my displeasure on a Michigan basketball forum. I do this also knowing it doesn’t really matter what I think. I’m a diehard Michigan fan. I can’t help myself.
I’d also argue that myself and a handful of posters on this site are ahead of the curve with the negativity. Shoot, MattD looks like Nostradamus right now. Sooner than you think, the majority of the fan base will completely turn on JB. I think it will happen around this time next year. There’s no light at the end of the tunnel.
Have you seen the 200+ comment threads on mgoblog ripping JB and the program? That was a site that worshipped JB his first 7 years.
1 Like
Think you’re making stuff up about people implying only M improves–counter-intuitive. “Ahead of the curve on the negativity,” though–you are welcome to that, for sure. Don’t think MattD foresaw us losing two of our four best players this year, our eldest players, or any of the other player losses. In the end there’s just no knowing how different these teams would have been. This is the place where you kind of get pissed off that we don’t fall in line–simple categorical dismissals of Beilein don’t quite make sense if one accepts how much the coaches have been hamstrung. (Which is why we end up getting these sophomoric lectures about “how important D is!” One expects this stuff at CBSsports.com. . .)
I’m like you, though–in the end it will have to work. And I think that next year probably tells us a great deal. To sit around repetitiously fulminating against Beilein is a choice, though.
Here is where we differ considerably. The coaches do not get a pass because they are hamstrung because of injuries.
My reason for why is the recruiting is not only sub par the evaluations on some guys have been total whiffs. Roster management(recruited positions)has also been very poor. If their recruiting is up to snuff with what some of us consider B1G caliber players we aren’t getting absolutely destroyed by any team with a pulse.
You are slowly getting into our category by saying something needs to change by next year. You still are holding out hope they will right the ship and they might. The reason I’m already there is because the type of players they have been bringing in I never thought would cut it. So I’m salty because i never thought Michigan would be in a strong position this year even with Caris
2 Likes
I do get frustrated when people cite Caris being out is the source of our problems. There is ample evidence over the last 2 seasons that having Caris in the lineup didn’t change a whole lot of anything. We were still getting ran off the floor by good teams. We were losing to bad teams last year with him.
Spike was never suppose to be looked at as more than a spot minute player yet it’s convenient to use him to bail out JB’s all around coaching performance the last 2 years.
This is where “silver linings” and “bury my head in the sand” meet. To me, you’re burying your head in the sand, and it’s frustrating reading you sometimes because I know you have a high basketball IQ. (As I’m sure you get frustrated with me).
So because Spike was not expected to be a contributor when he was recruited, his absence this season can’t be considered when evaluating the team and coaching staff? Nice logic.
People said the exact same stuff about Beilein and his recruiting, and then the team won 2 B1G titles in three years and 8 tourney games in two years. So maybe these guys were two or three curves ahead?
And in my view, there’s a difference between saying something like (a) we got kind of lucky with Trey, Nik, Timmy, etc., and we can’t count on that, and we’re probably looking at a good but not elite program under JB, which isn’t good enough at Michigan, and (b) half our players don’t deserve MAC scholarships and JB can’t evaluate talent and we’ll be lucky to ever make the tournament again and any positive comment is just refusal to see the truth.
By the way, are mpbear (aka MarkDPratt14) and prattd brothers by any chance? Just curious, with the similar names and opinions. Would be a nice way for family to keep in touch.
Or because he’s a very limited player. He would be a spot minute player or less on every big ten team headed to the NCAA tournament this year.
Spot player? He was a regular rotation player on our team that won the conference by 3 games and made the elite 8. But you’re right–his absence can’t be considered when evaluating the season.
I don’t argue the evidence that we lost games with Caris - which probably supports what we all know in our hearts…this team did not have a very high ceiling (i.e. Final Four).
With that being said, I think we can all agree that we would at least be in a better position as a team if we had a healthy Caris, no?
I haven’t read anybody’s comments and thought they were extremely off-base…Inferior talent is an issue, and a scheme to hide that deficiency hasn’t worked out because we simply aren’t making the shots required to do so. Blame should be placed on coaching/recruiting, low basketball IQ plays at inopportune times, and a top loaded conference that shows us we are what we feared…a middle of the B1G type team.
1 Like
He averaged 14min a game. 3pts and 2 assists in 2013-2014. Keep burying your head.
Would this team be better if we had Spike? Yes, but IMO, marginally better. Spike is not the difference between beating OSU or losing by 10+ like someone stated above.
If you want to be a contender, not only in conference but as a team with the capability of making a final 4 run, a Spike Albrecht should never make or break your season.
We weren’t good with spike and Caris at 100% last year. But somehow, everything would be gravy if we had them.
I said at the end “But we simply don’t” I am not complaining or anything like that. I am just saying how it is an unfair statement.
Nice strawman. No one ever said we’d be “gravy.” But we would be better with Spike. Period.
15 minutes per game is not a spot player. That is 38% of the available minutes at the PG position, so you are quite wrong yet again.
No one can predict how the season would have been if not for the injuries (although you think you can), but only someone trying to further an agenda would claim that the injuries have made such a minimal difference.
By they way, can you believe that GLIAC player at Texas is playing so well? He ha 15 points in 20 minutes in their upset of WVa. But you’re right–not even MAC level.
Haha, you got me! I was wrong on Eric Davis which I’ve already admitted numerous times. Go back and read my scouting reports on the other players. Pretty high hit rate my friend. I now wish JB would have went after Eric Davis hard. Sure would make this “we miss Spike” argument be irrelevant.
Just like how 2 months ago you and your cronies were going after me for saying Jalen Coleman has a higher upside than Duncan… Awfully quiet on that front.
Would we be better if we had Spike? I’ve already said we would, but that’s not saying much. So what’s your point?
Just bury that head man. Everything is going to be all good. No worries.
Yes we are brothers but our views are different on a lot of things. I like JBs offense except for the relying on 3s all the time. The actions they run are fantastic and hard to defend.
We have taken a step backwards in recruiting. We no longer are coming out of the dark times of Michigan basketball. Recruiting guys like Vogrich Mcliams Smotz Horford Stu, even Morgan(who I like and was a great player) just aren’t going to cut it. The staff lost all momentum with where they had the program. That’s concerning
1 Like
You do scouting reports? Do you think people value those?
I didn’t realize that it had been conclusively decided that JCL was better than Robinson? I guess if the guy who called Eric Davis a GLIAC player says so, it must be true.
I would imagine you were also writing Beilein’s obituary after the 2009-10 season. Missed the tournament, meh recruiting class coming in. ZOMG! Program is doomed!
1 Like
I don’t care if people value them or not. I wrote them as a favor to Dylan and this site 2 summers ago when I attended an EYBL event in Dallas.
Citing the 2009-2010 season… Keep burying your head man.
Nice, you guys must have some spirited hoops conversations around the dinner table (or in the stands or watching the game or whatever).
And what a huge favor it was!
And so everyone that disagrees with your doomsday take is burying their head in the sand? It’s possible to be disappointed in the past two seasons without assuming that we are on a downward trajectory that can’t be stopped unless we get a new coach. Most level-headed fans can acknowledge the program’s current shortcomings without writing off the future.