Putting together the class of '17

Absolutely, though on paper 2013 was really good, the guys just haven’t been what we anticipated.

I’m still struggling with Tillman vs. Young.

The offensive side of me thinks Young. He seems like he’s built well for the typical JB 4 man. The defensive side and toughness/rebounding and traditionalist in me thinks Tillman.

Anyone willing to talk me one way or the other please?

I’ll try to talk you into Young. I like Tillman, but Young is an excellent rebounder, a perfect fit offensively, and if we were to get another 4 (in either '17 or '18), he’s versatile enough to play 3 and play it well. I think JB is going to go more athletic, but he’s never going to run a team out there with a majority of the players being unable to space the floor from deep, and Young actually gives us more ability to mix and match with a lesser shooter at another position. Don’t get me wrong–I like Tillman (and I like Livers as well)–but given a choice, I’d choose Young without question for what Michigan does.


Isaiah Livers is a guy that I think could get some more buzz. He has more range than Donnie Tillman with his jumper to space the floor.

Crazy thing about Kyle Young is that almost all of his shots are threes or within 5 feet, almost no middle game. True inside, pick-and-pop type of four man.

MHoops - I’ve seen a ton of Young this spring and I don’t think there’s any way he could play the 3 on either side of the court in college.

Spot on - Isaiah has a very nice midrange jumper. Here is the thing though - from what I’ve seen he’s actually a pretty good 3 point shooter as well.

Yeah, Livers looks like a plus guy at all three levels (rim, mid-range, three) from what he’s done on the EYBL circuit. Compare that to Donnie Tillman who is more of a drive to get fouled type of guy without much range.

Who are the major players in Livers’ recruitment?

From mid-May College Sports News and Recruiting

“Michigan State, Harvard, Notre Dame, Butler, Stanford, and Michigan are the main schools recruiting me,” noted Livers.

Think he’s a guy that could have a big July. Played well in April, but schools probably want to see a bit more and he’s played well in May (when schools can’t watch).

Who do you think moves better - Tillman or Livers?

Haven’t seen enough of them to answer. Will watch some film and get back to you.

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Thanks - I’m inclined to say Livers and he also looks like he can play inside if needed. Tillman seems stronger to me though and probably more of an aggressive rebounder. JMO

I’ll try to talk into Tillman, even though I’m admittedly a huge fan of Young, and it’s very close. We need an instant overhaul in terms of talent and athleticism that translates to winning on the court. Donnie is more of an instant impact player based on having a college ready body, more strength, more physicality, and more athleticism. We need a guy that can come in immediately and be an adequate rebounder and post defender, and there is no doubt IMO that Donnie equipped to do that as a freshman.

On the offensive side Young is no doubt the superior threat from distance, but that is where the advantages end. Donnie has the ability to grab a defensive rebound and literally play PG in transition, his ball skills at 6’7/225 are excellent. He’s also an elite offensive rebounder that will give you garbage points on putbacks, something we desperately need when the offense goes dry. Donnie can handle the ball well enough to take a bigger defender off the dribble while being strong enough to bully a smaller defender, Young just doesn’t have that type of versatility in his game IMO.

Long term I like Donnie because he has more upside based on athleticism. Just think it would be a no brainer to push hard for Donnie - he’s the type of player we desperately need. Doesn’t need a single play called for him but still produces


Not even close, Donnie has a better handle by light years. Seriously, Donnies handles to the point where you can run Ido Iso sets for him and he can create space with change of direction, Livers not even approaching that level


He loves MSU, point blank. If they offer, that’s where he’s headed

Matt, are you saying that he’s not mobile enough to play 3? If so, while I haven’t seen him live, he certainly seems as mobile as, say Duncan Robinson. Now your response might be that you wouldn’t be starting Duncan because he’s not athletic enough and that’s fine, but clearly, Beilein would, and it isn’t just Duncan–he played Nik there for a year, and played all sorts of guys at WVU who fall into that category. I know Beilein is looking to get more athletic, but depending on roster composition (and admittedly based solely on film, which is clearly inferior to the live looks you’ve had), I’d be surprised if he was completely foreclosed from playing 3 if he comes to Michigan. If we get guys like Jamal and Matthews in addition to him, likely not, but if we were successful in recruiting 4s in '17 and/or '18 and less successful in recruiting 3s, I could see him moving over.

Matt, how is Livers as a rebounder and defender from a toughness standpoints? Really hope Young decides soon so we could move on if he goes elsewhere. Seems like Livers and Tillman are the only other mentioned targets and not really sure if we have turned up the attention on Tillman.

How much does not having a shooter at the 4 affect JB’s offence?

Wouldn’t mind the staff getting on Jordan Nwora from Buffalo, good shooter and doing well in EYBL.

I don’t see Young as a guy that would play the three really. I guess maybe in a pinch, but not by plan at this point. Just my 2 cents as things stand today.

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“Doesn’t need a single play called for him but still produces”

I love that idea! With all the 3’s we chuck up there, it would be great to have a guy turn some misses into points.

Certainly based in part on athletic ability, but also lack of ball handling and passing, he just doesn’t have that type of ability IMO. I really love Young at the 4 though, would be estatic to land him