Is that the year where he tanked Game 7?
Also I found his first title appearance very impressive. Sweep or not. Still young and literally no help.
4-1? The Lakers pushed them to 7 games.
Because that’s the only way the team could win. Making the team better is about winning, nothing more. Dribbling the ball for 16 seconds before setting your unsuspecting teammate up is not necessarily making your team better.
I think he meant '06 not '07.
I’m not sure how you think your argument relates to mine?
In 2008, Boston beat Detroit in 6 games to advance to the NBA Finals. That Detroit team was making its what, 6th straight trip to the Eastern Conference Finals? That team would have beaten the Lakers in the NBA Finals.
The Lakers beat the Spurs to get there. And then Boston spanked the Lakers.
Point being, you’re slamming the East when I’d say the two best teams resided in the East that year. Indeed, if Garnett doesn’t get hurt in 2009, you might be looking at a Celtics’ three peat from 2008-2010, and Kobe might have retired with 3 rings, not 5. But that didn’t happen, and Kobe certainly deserves credit for what he achieved.
But, as to the overall thrust of the argument, I was actually going to take up for you, believe it or not, because to me, Kobe and LeBron are both generational talents, but unless and until LeBron wins his fifth ring, Kobe is the better player.
The East was pretty solid from 2004-2008 (three titles from Detroit, Miami, and Boston), and again with LeBron in Miami (2 more titles). But the West was dominant from 1999-2003, and it’s been the deeper conference and far better lately.
To me, LeBron has come up HUGE these past two games, where he has finally quit deferring and has put the team on his back. But it doesn’t matter if he can’t do it one last time to close it out.
Correct, my bad on that. Thanks
No problem. I didn’t know… had to look it up. Wikipedia also told me, “The Lakers became the 8th team in NBA history to blow a 3-1 series lead.”
Now that makes more sense ha ha
You have to be kidding me to think the Pistons would’ve won a series vs. the 08 Lakers. That’s laughable IMO. Funny how you reference an injured Garnett in 09, but fail to mention Bynum being injured in 08. Had Bynum been healthy in 08, you’re probably looking at the second edition of a Laker 3peat, and Kobe possibly being considered the greatest player of all time rather than top 5, or 10, depending on your subjective opinion. It works both ways
Yeah, unfortunately I’m very familiar with that experience lol. But, to be a Laker fan is to be spoiled, and I love it. The standard is championship or bust, and if not, coaches get fired within 2 years. Its worked for 60 years, and it will continue to.
Please. First of all, yes, the 59 win Pistons would have beaten the Lakers. They played Boston much tougher than LA did that year.
Second, Kobe’s a great player - top 10 all time, maybe top 5 (I’d put Magic ahead of him, but that’s open to debate). He’s not Jordan, and only complete LA homers even engage in that sort of debate. If Jordan doesn’t “retire” for two years, we’re talking 8 straight titles, which is far more dominant than anything Kobe ever did, or ever would have done with a healthy Bynum. And sure, Bynum would have helped in that series, but I don’t think LA wins it with him. Boston was incredible that year.
Only a complete Piston homer would have favored them to beat LA in 08. Vegas would’ve had the Lakers heavily favored and you know it. Hell, they were favored to beat Boston that year. To say the Pistons played Boston much tougher is a joke. Boston blew the Lakers out in game 6, this is true. But I believe the margin of victory for either team was single digits for every other game - in other words close games. Similarly, the Pistons-Celtics series was pretty close, with the exception being game 3 if I recall correctly, where Boston routed Detroit.
Second, I certainly never said Kobe>MJ. I explicitly said Kobe is top 5, and perhaps top 10, depending on your take - which you agree with. What I did say is that if Kobe won in 08 (With a healthy Bynum), then he possibly could be considered the greatest of all time. I think that’s a reasonable take because then he would have 6 rings.
We get it, you love Kobe. He was an assassin. Rooted for him also many times. It 's not LeBron’s fault the Eastern Conference is or was weaker than the West during most years. I’m hoping he wins it this year for Cleveland but if not it does not diminish him historically in my eyes as a top ten all timer and arguably top 5. And this from a Detroiter who hates most teams not from Detroit. You have some serious hate for LeBron… Probably worse than most Detroiters hate for Jordan. Although we acknowledge his greatness.
I have no hate for Lebron, he is an all time great, top 10-15 in my eyes. We get it, the younger generation thinks he is better than what he really is. You are correct that its not Lebron’s fault the East is trash, although one could argue he chose that path via free agency to go to Miami with his buddies as opposed to a WC team.
Also, I expressly acknowledge MJ as the greatest of all time. 6 rings - period. As a Laker fan, and the way I think most fans should feel - winning is all that matters to me, point blank. This plays into my take on JB, although that is another debate. I don’t care about how nice a player is, whether he’s a good guy, nice to the media, etc. All of that is subjective, and meaningless in the grand scheme of things. In LA, we don’t hang division/conference banners, that’s a joke to us. Championship or bust, flat out. If we don’t win a championship, the season is a failure. And that is my take on Lebron, I don’t care about regular season MVPs or stats. All that matters is winning, championships to be exact. If he’s so great, so unworldly, he should be winning championships. End of story
I get it, I’ve lived in Michigan most of my adult life, and most Midwesterners feel much like you. They sympathize with the struggle of a Cleveland like team/city and think there is something to be said for being a ‘good guy’. We don’t give a shit about that in LA. Just win
“We get it, the younger generation thinks he is better than he really is”
I would love to hear your list of 14 players better than LeBron in NBA history.
Side note, MattD as a Laker fan, would you rather have Simmons or Ingram? I’m excited to see Ingram alongside Russell and Randle.
I said 10-15 range. MJ, Magic, Larry, Kobe, Shaquille, Hakeem, Big O, Tim Duncan, Wilt would be 9 guys I would place ahead of Lebron right now.
I think Simmons is the better player in relation to Ingram, but wholeheartedly agree that Ingram is the better fit with Randle. Although I wouldn’t mind Jaylen Brown either. I know most here probably think I’m nuts for saying it, but the Lakers are set up to have a really nice team over the next 5 years. They have 3 players that appear to be starter quality players at minimum with cheap contracts in Randle, Russell and Ingram/Simmons. Then you have Clarkson who appears to be a borderline all star on a reasonable 14mill per year assuming we max him. If the Lakers get someone noteworthy in FA this summer or approach winning 40-44 games next year the NBA better be afraid. The Lakers with a decent roster and 50 mill in cap space after next season is going to be dangerous.
Wait a minute. I have no dog in this fight, but you’re saying that winning championships is the only thing that matters and you have no one from the Red Auerbach Celtics teams which won 9 championships in 10 seasons? I’d understand if you were only including players who played in the more modern era, but you’ve included Oscar and Wilt, each of whom was a contemporary of those teams and had a vastly inferior playoff record to that of, say, Bill Russell, If you’re including them because of great stats, regular season or otherwise, then LeBron’s stats would matter more than his record in NBA finals. And if winning (and defense/rebounding of which you are a staunch advocate) matters more, how is Russell not at or near the top of the list.
I don’t think you’re nuts at all, I’m really high on both Russell and Randle. Those guys will get a lot better, throw in a scorer like Ingram and you have one of the best young cores in the league.
Cmon MHoops - it took everything in me to include Larry Legend as a Laker fan born and raised, but that is just undeniable. You’re killing me here man, what else do you want from me lol