Moritz Wagner vs. Mark Donnal minutes distribution

He is valuable relative to Wagner defensively.

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I think most can agree that Wagner is the future at the center position over Donnal.

I just disagree and that’s fine. Our defense isn’t the problem right now. We aren’t scoring and with the way Wagner can, he must be out there.

That’s cool. I respect your opinion. I want to rewatch the game. JB does have a tendency to go with who he has a longer history of trust. MAybe Wagner is turning a corner and some of us are lagging behind in recognizing it.

LIke you, I look forward to Wagner maturing. He is going to be a very unique player. I totally trust Wagner’s 3 ball…He is going to be an awesome weapon.

Me too. His offensive skill set is pretty awesome to watch. There aren’t 10 guys in the country right now that can score the ways Wagner can. I love watching it.

and to your point…If a player is not bringing energy sit them. Wagner always seems to bring it.

Another great point by you. Wagner has the best motor on this team. We need this guy on the court more than people realize.

Interestingly enough, in the second half Mo got subbed out by Teske once and by DJ once. He got subbed out by Donnal for less than a minute early in the second half, and then subbed out for Donnal very late when Beilein was going defense for offense.

Box score and play-by-play.

Their stats are pretty similar though.

I never understand why Donnal gets the short leash but Wagner doesn’t. I think they’re both good players but I think Donnal is vastly underappreciated by the fanbase in general.

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Sure but when you see a kid struggle on both sides of a ball in game, why is he in the game? Especially when Wagner was our only form of offense in the 2nd.

This, right here, would be my complaint. Sometimes JB gets bogged down by what he ‘knows’ about the team/individual players and doesn’t go with who is producing in the current game. Mark had been the better defender all season, but it was blatantly obvious that he wasnt last night. Similarly, MAAR is usually a rock for our team, outside of missing open jumpers (which he hit 36% of last year), but he was really bad last night.

I cant even complain about Zak taking the last shot, and ignoring the secondary option. He was the man last night. I just dont get how, after 3 years of ‘Zak shots,’ JB hasn’t drilled that out of him. Zak was getting to the rim for scoop layups all night. He needed to put his head down and try to get fouled.

Saying Donnal is our better defender is an indictment on the Bigs defense. Donnal can more than on occasion play position defense. But his lateral movement and lack of athleticism gets exploited constantly.

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That’s true. But “better” is a relative word. Donnal had been the “better” defender, before last night, even if not a “good” defender. Though I definitely think he had been fine.

To bring this back around: how GREAT would it be to have Teske’s defensive potential combined with Wagner’s offensive game combined with supernatural athletic abilities?? *cough Bamba cough"


Moe is shooting 65% from the field with a 60% 3 point stroke (9-15). What a offensive talent that kid is going to be.

I sink or swim with him the rest of the year as a 25-28 minute a game primary option at the 5.

I don’t care if he can’t guard Dylan.


Interesting quote from Coach Beilein on Wagner after the Keennesaw game:
“At this point, with his body changes, he’s not dominating inside, but we have to get him there, and I don’t know if that ever happens”

I agree with Coach Beilein here. Wagner, I believe, will always be most comfortable facing up. He is not a back to the basket player. Wagner’s future professionaly is exactly what Coach Beilein is developing at UM. If Wagner ever does become a physical force down low, it will be after his UM playing days are over.

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The bench is a very strong motivator.
Coach Beilein has shown time and again he knows how to develop players. There are certain things Beilein will not tolerate. Wagner seems to indulge in these things to Coach Beilein’s great dissatisfaction. Our collective dismay when Wagner is seated on the bench, should be tempered knowing Coach Beilein has a really advanced ability to make players better.

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I don’t agree there. There have been multiple plays he’s shown back to the basket moved with spins or pivota and then A baby hook. He did it versus v tech. He has the footwork. Not sure why belein thinks that. I think he’d be very effective on the low block using his nice foot work.

I think he’s saying that as a motivator. Maybe moe reacts when doubted or benched like you say, I think this could be a huge part of our offense abs we should use it

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I think JB was not questioning whether not Wagner can be effective down low but rather he will be considered dominant. Down low with the back to the basket will probably always be a secondary part of his game and part of the reason is his primary face up stuff and 3 point shooting is trending toward elite.

I’m not arguing the importance of Moe developing into a great player for this team’s ceiling. I’m just pointing out the reasons that he doesn’t play sometimes.

Some good footage of Moe going to work here:

It’s not that he can’t do it, more a case he’s better, and most comfortable facing up.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Teske is similar, ala Jack Sikma, catching the ball and immediately facing up with a reverse pivot. Davis is the one I expect to embrace grappling in the low post