Michigan at Texas Discussion


Hundred percent agree here. These next three games I think it’s essential beilein irons out the rotations and kinks in our lineup against the weaker competition. I always support giving the young guys disproportionate amount of the minutes in these games as it allows them real life game situations to get comfy which we need them to be against tougher opponents. We know what Charles, moe, Duncan and maar can do. I’d play the kids 20 min each at least and only adjust it if the games close.

I agree with you we need to play Poole big minutes here the next three games. I think he needs to experiment with Mathews at the four next to Poole for large portions to see the result and get them use to it. The lineup of a pg, maar, Poole, Mathews, moe should see 5-10 min a game at least. We need. Likes offense badly and he’s a spark that get this team to the next level. I’d also play livers a ton here. Ie less Duncan over the next few games do we can explore our options at the 4. Jordan can change this team y giving us a spark off the bench as we need offevse t times .


Anyone else think that Osetkowski was a bit dirty at other times besides that flailing offensive elbow? I saw him bully Z a few times and he was constantly bumping folks during breaks. Definitely a situation where you love him if he’s yours but…


I fail to see what is so controversial about what Swinawer said. Except perhaps the notion that we were recruiting him specifically to play the 4… IMO, and I suspect Swinawer agrees, we were not recruiting a position, we were recruiting him because he is athletic combined with the fact that he is one of the longest basketball players in the world at any level, ever…I mean, what do you guys think JB would have done with him? Sit him because Wagner is good? Sit him because Robinson might make some threes and help spread the floor? Yeah, it is not an ideal fit but if Bamba chose to come here Wagner and Bamba were both going to play a lot, at the same time, given our team makeup…


Yeah, I did. I noticed after the flagrant elbow or forearm, and it SHOULD have been a flagrant 1, he said, “Don’t F’ing talk to me” to someone, and I’m guessing it wasn’t the ref. I tried to run it back a couple of times to see who he was talking to. Mathews? One of our other players, perhaps Z who might have been sticking up for Charles. I felt, while the kid has some skills, we’re much more apt to see him in the WWE than in the NBA.


I tend to agree with @wolverheel above that this is silly to discuss because Bamba plays for Texas, not Michigan.

But I think it speaks to some fundamental parts of Michigan’s offense and defense. The idea that Bamba could play the 4 in any capacity at Michigan, but is struggling on offense playing the 5 at Texas is pretty out there.

That being said, obviously if you have Bamba and Wagner on the same roster, they’d play minutes together in some capacity. I think you would probably see them account for all of the minutes at the five and then Wagner could pick up some additional minutes at the four with Bamba at the five. Bamba would be able to protect the rim so well that you probably don’t care that Wagner can’t defend the four either.


We would all want Bamba to be protecting the rim defensively but Swinawer suggested Bamba might have played 4 for us offensively.

You and Wolverheel are right, though, this kind of dealing in hypotheticals is kind of silly.

I guess I saw the possibility of Bamba playing a sort of cutting to the basketball garbage man role from the 4 as the best use of him. He looks horrible in anything dealing with posting up and I think learning the timing of the JB 5 is a skill that requires more than a season. Plus, Wagner is a great 5 offensively so messing with that does not sound like a great idea.

Anyway…It is silly…


That’s funny


That’s what I’m saying. The four is a wing position, what exactly did you see from Bamba that could ever allow him to play the 4? There’s not a “garbage man 4” role on this team. The four has to be able to pass, handle, cut and shoot.


I believe Beilein has used Simpson & Brooks on the court together in some limited situations in other games.

Games when they are playing well and earning extra minutes, I’m all for it. Games where one or the other is struggling, I’d rather see them just concentrate on giving UM 40 quality minutes of PG play.


I agree with @umhoops, there is little to indicate Bamba can handle the offensive responsibilities of a wing in Beilein’s system. Wagner’s game — with his shooting range, dribble-drive ability, passing — is much more adaptable to a wing in Beilein’s offense…although then you lose some of the match-up mis-match of having a college center trying to defend out at the 3-pt arc.


If I were going to argue for Bamba for sure being slotted as a Michigan 5 offensively, using the game as a source for information, I would first want to look for evidence of Bamba executing a pick and roll and/or pick and pop. I saw no evidence that Bamba can even set a pick with reliability against college players—he looked horrible at setting picks. By my count he had exactly one half way successful screen and roll to the hoop and it ended up in him not finishing—the sequence was actually pretty awkward looking. His post ups were horrible, which wouldn’t matter for our offense but the reason they were so bad is he is just not strong. He shot 3 3’s and made 1. Two of his field goals occurred from off the ball drifts toward the rim which began from near the perimeter (18 feet out) and resulted in finishes at the rim. One of those two field goals, I just mentioned, were the result of our 4 and 5 double teaming the other Texas big and Bamba drifting off the ball (from 18 feet out)…Bamba’s final field goal was a little one dribble drive that started at 18 feet out against our 4.

The Michigan 4 is of course a perimeter position but it requires the least amount of ball handling of positions 1-4. I can envision M employing a low usage, offensive rebounding 4 who scores a modest amount by cuts to the rim and drifts to the rim,if, the deficiency in perimeter skillset was somehow counterbalanced by something like the defensive presence offered by a player like Bamba. Again, the notion that Bamba might have played the 4 for us offensively, is a judgment that is heavily influenced by the fact that Wagner is going to play a lot, and Wagner has proven to be an excellent offensive Michigan 5. Why would JB, for sure, want to move Wagner to the 4 offensively, in cases where Bamba and Wagner would have been on the court at the same time?

Regarding the notion that there is no role for a “garbage man 4” in our offense…Ok, we can call it a very valuable aspect…I would argue that part of what made GR3 and Wilson valuable is their ability and willingness to do the dirty work to get weakside rebounds and tip outs in traffic…The Michigan 4 calls for that garbage man aspect more than any other Michigan position. Just because some of our players have not displayed it does not mean that it shouldn’t be noted that the opportunities are there and that our more successful 4’s have displayed an ability and willingness to do that kind of rebounding dirty work.

The other aspect of “garbage man” that GR3 exemplified was a willingness to be low usage as a skilled-initiator and to accept his role as the recipient of the skilled-playmaking abilities of his teammates–where his job was to finish with very athletic dunks, alley oops, and lay ups that require superior athleticism, rather than require technical basketball skills…

This might be an agree to disagree moment…


Whoa, this post keeps popping to the top of my feed with all of the edits.

Mo Bamba coming off of a dribble hand off or a wide pindown doesn’t really seem like what you want. Mo Bamba standing in the corner waiting for a drive and kick three. Same deal.

Bamba is a guy you want to catch drop off passes or alley-oops when Zavier gets into the lane and draws help. You want him around the rim to get putbacks, etc. You want him screening and rolling to the basket to catch and finish or put back.

In a four out offense, I think the last thing you’d want to do is take Bamba away from the basket by playing him at the four.

Even look at it in Texas’ offense, Dylan Osetkowski would actually be a nifty four in Michigan’s offense. He has ball skills, can shoot a bit, runs a lot of the UT offense, can drive, post-up. Unique player and would be a great fit.


Sorry for all of the edits. I wrote that post while sleep deprived and when I looked at it this morning it was a mess…I should have just rewrote the whole thing from a fresh start rather than try to edit it into decency…