Michigan at Penn State Discussion Thread


I don’t think that this team has over achieved yet. Pre-season, I thought they would be 5th or better in the B1G, right where they are. Now if they make the B1G finals or advance to the sweet 16, maybe that would be overachieving.


Hard to be shocked by a 1st round loss when you’re a 6 seed or lower, imo.


I think Z was mostly to thank for this: he made life super difficult on Carr, and that offense runs through him. Like @umhoops said in the recap, when Carr finally got going, it was because they were getting Z switched off of Carr with 1-4 PNR and double screens.

And they had the strangest offensive game-plan, to start: run the offense by posting up with their back-up centers. Sure was nice of them to run that, while we vomited turnovers.


That’s a good point, 5th is probably right around where most everyone expected. I guess I assumed we’d be a bubble team that was unranked for the majority of the year however. Top 20 and securely in the field feels slightly ahead of schedule


A lot of really good performances that game. Wagner = big time player, fantastic season. Huge shots to get the team going and then more to stem the tide, plus big free throws in a 1-and-1 down the stretch. Should be first team all-B1G.

Robinson - great game, 3s, put in on the deck against closeouts, hands everywhere defensively.

Simpson - superb defensively, showing really good ability to finish at the rim, ran the team well, 6 rebounds.

MAAR - not the strongest game, but like Beilein says, makes the next right play, with some big buckets and solid defense.

Poole - not just the points, but good passing. That 2 on 1 is a play he’ll make next year, but like the aggressiveness.

As for PSU, they should dump Chambers if they don’t make the tourney this year. He’s not a good coach, but they have talent which could get a new coach off to a good start.


A lot of other years, probably. But with Haas and Happ, unlikely. I think 2nd team would be a huge accomplishment. I wonder if the coaches will be reluctant to vote for him haha.


I don’t think he will be, and maybe I’d change my mind after looking more into other guys. Happ is tough because his team is so bad, but winning counts. Right now, after Bates-Diop, Bridges, and maybe Carsen Edwards, I’m not sure anyone has a better case than Wagner. And he had maybe the best performance of the year in the best conference win of the year @MSU, which counts for something in my book.


You can’t consistently pick up your dribble in the middle of the lane and not expect some contact or to . be bailed out by the refs. This is on Matthews right now. Hopefully, he’ll figure it out.


I’m not arguing with how people will vote, but I really don’t think Haas is even that good. He seems like their 3rd (or fourth?) most important player who is mostly effective because most teams choose to single-cover him and his massive girth rather than leave Purdue’s 4 shooters open. Can you really be that good when your performance is predicated on the opposition choosing you when it comes to “pick your poison” time? He’s not good defensively, and even a liability against a modern big (much less of these in college than in the pros), and plays 23 minutes a game. I’m not impressed.


Appreciate you calling me on Haas! Took a look at his stats, and you’re totally right; Id put Moe ahead of him.

Wisky’s general badness does make Happ an interesting case. But his stats/usage are just remarkable for a center who has no jump shot. No team is more dependent on a player, at basically every level of their offense and defense.


Putting Wagner ahead of Haas would be pretty absurd. Haas is more effecient on much higher usage and is a much better defender. Wagner is a better rebounder, but not enough to justify saying he’s better.


Haas and Wagner have pretty much identical TS% and eFG% on close to the same number of shot equivalents in conference play (though PU has to play an extra game). I’d give the advantage to Wagner because he’s the #1 guy on Michigan, while I don’t think Haas is that for Purdue, and Wagner is a better rebounder (edit - although Haas is a better offensive rebounder). I certainly don’t think it’s “absurd” to put Wagner ahead.


When did Haas become good defensively?


He’s not more efficient, though.

Looking at Torvik, Wagner is in the 97th percentile nationally in eFG% and 96th in True shooting.
Haas is 96th and 98th, His usage is 4% higher, but that has to be mitigated by the fact he’s on the floor for 4 fewer minutes a game.


Haas is also playing with the benefit of being surrounded by four 40%+ shooters. It’s a fun conversation though, because Haas and Moe are both super productive 5s, but do their damage so differently.


I also must give Duncan credit for stepping up his game. As I said earlier in the season if he was not hitting shots he was a minus to the team. He is making smart offensive decisions and he has shown to be a smart defender if not the strongest or most athletic. His length helps him out very much and he’s a very good communicator on defense.



A matter of opinion but Beilein, with a few days to prepare, is just not likely to let such a game slip.


Not to jinx this discussion, but Beilein is also a nightmare to prepare for from the other side as well.


12-5 is a really good record for a 5th place team though. 12-6 tied for second place last season. It’s been good for 3rd place most years. Anyone who was predicting 5th place was probably thinking we’d go 10-8.