Wolverheel,
I wasn’t calling you dumb. I was addressing your concern that readers of the site will dismiss wolverine3’s observations/ opinions/ arguments because of improper grammar usage. I don’t think you have anything to worry about because most people on this site are smart enough to realize that it is entirely possible for someone to offer valuable content even if it is expressed in an improper form.
So… are we saying that Wagner can’t conjugate correctly? Is that a result of English as a second language or poor lateral quickness? I’m just hoping you’re/your/ur/yore being honest about all of it.
@MattR, if I could like YOUr post I WoOd.
In regards to the 4 spot, I’m curious to see if they put Robinson there. I’m interested to know if he can hold his own on the defensive side of the ball.
Just because he plays the right side on offense doesn’t necessarily mean he’d have to guard the opposing 4 on defense. If Irvin and Robinson are in the game at the same time, for instance, and Irvin is playing the left side, I’m pretty sure Irvin would guard the other teams 4 and Robinson either the opposing 2 or 3.
Just because he plays the right side on offense doesn't necessarily mean he'd have to guard the opposing 4 on defense. If Irvin and Robinson are in the game at the same time, for instance, and Irvin is playing the left side, I'm pretty sure Irvin would guard the other teams 4 and Robinson either the opposing 2 or 3.
I really don’t see how that would mitigate the issue…Robinson appears to be more laterally challenged in relation to Zak (who isn’t fleet of foot himself), so sticking Robinson on a 2/3 would still be an issue, much the same it would be an issue to stick Robinson on a 4. Reality is this, we most likely have nobody on the roster that can adequately defend the post, or hold down the defensive glass based on what we know right now. Just think it depends on matchups within a game at a particular time.
Just because he plays the right side on offense doesn't necessarily mean he'd have to guard the opposing 4 on defense. If Irvin and Robinson are in the game at the same time, for instance, and Irvin is playing the left side, I'm pretty sure Irvin would guard the other teams 4 and Robinson either the opposing 2 or 3.
Tom, if Robinson is playing in the corner as a 4, how is he getting back and finding a 2 who is playing on top against a team like MSU, which runs secondary breaks even after made baskets? I can see him guarding the 3, though even then, you may be criss-crossing the court to find your guy, but the 2 seems difficult except if/when the other team walks the ball up or the ball goes out-of-bounds and there’s plenty of time to get organized on the defensive end. What am I missing here?
Hoops…in my experience, individual matchups trump everything. Obviously, in man to man there is going to be a lot of cross-matching because of the transition piece. And as you point out, it can be a bit problematic having the right side forward chase down a 2…but UM switches so much, I don’t think it’s a major concern for the coaches.
If Irvin and Robinson are in the game together, I don’t think JB is going to have Robinson guard a guy like Nigel Hayes, even though Robinson is playing the right side and Irvin is the left.
MSU is a pretty extreme example and like I said above, it’s hard to predict matchups off a made or a miss becuase of the motion of the UM’s offense…it’s also possible that in the case that Robinson is at the 4, JB decides to have him not crash the O glass and that way it’s easier to get matched up.
I get what you are saying though…ideally, you want to have the 4 guard the 4…but I think there will be a lot of instances where that won’t be the case, for better or worse.
MattD…mitigates the issue? I’m not sure what you mean. My point was simply, Irvin is probably better suited to guard a 4 than Robinson and if they are in the game together it’s likely Irvin takes the 4 and Robinson matches up elsewhere.
I wasn’t trying to say this situation would be ideal or not…I was just suggesting to Wolverine3 that even if Robinson played the 4, he wouldn’t necessarily guard the 4 depending on the lineup
Tom_McC - I think he was saying to putting Robinson on a smaller quicker player would probably be even worse than Drob guarding a 4. You have to look at all of the matchups. Maybe Duncan guarding the 4 is the least of evils in some situations.
KJE conveyed my point perfectly - just depends on the matchups for a given game.
@MattD, I listened to the hoops recruiting podcast on rivals today. In it, Balas stated that Mortiz Wagner is more then capable of putting the ball on the floor and going to the hole in the B1G. He said multiple times the kid has ball skills.
Just another opinion… But you might be underrating his perimeter skills just a tad. Again, time will tell.
@MattD, I listened to the hoops recruiting podcast on rivals today. In it, Balas stated that Mortiz Wagner is more then capable of putting the ball on the floor and going to the hole in the B1G. He said multiple times the kid has ball skills. Just another opinion... But you might be underrating his perimeter skills just a tad. Again, time will tell.
What do YOU think independent of various scouting reports. Ha pie you seen anything on film that indicates Wagner is currently capable of changing direction and getting separation from a defender in a half court set?
I certainly think Wagner can take 1-2 dribbles off a poor close out, but in no way, shape, or form does he possess strong ball skills based on what I’ve seen.
Finally, Balas isn’t necessarily the most credible basketball analyst/recruiting scout…as Rivals is pretty bad in general for basketball.
I’ve seen Warner take people off the dribble and change directions. Yes, he can do it. Saw it with my own eyes.
Wagner not Warner
I've seen Warner take people off the dribble and change directions. Yes, he can do it. Saw it with my own eyes.
Show me footage, or give me detailed analysis. Im from Missouri
1:35 of this video Mo uses a slick, change of direction, behind the back dribble to lose his defender, then makes a knifing, sideways, hop jump, past the help defender and lays the ball in. Simply gorgeous play
1:35 of this video Mo uses a slick, change of direction, behind the back dribble to lose his defender, then makes a knifing, sideways, hop jump, past the help defender and lays the ball in. Simply gorgeous play
I thought for sure that you would show me something I haven’t seen…I’ve viewed that film dozens of times. I’ll give it to you, he did change direction and lose a defender…ONCE. Now ask yourself, do you think he can change direction against a B10 level defender and get separation. Can he dribble with his left hand at all against legit comp?
I get the feeling some of you may think Im trying to put forth the idea that Wagner isn’t a decent player, which isn’t the case at all. Im on record as saying I think Wagner will be a decent player down the road. I love his motor and his attacking game. Im just saying the kid doesn’t look anywhere near a top 40 type player, and I think most people that have watched him play a full game in conjunction with highlights would say that is a stretch as well. Also, the idea that his handle is a strength of his game or that it is going to enable him to take defenders in an isolation situation in the B10 is definitely extreme. Wagner is a guy that excels in transition, attacks poor close outs, and gets garbage points. He’s not a guy that you run offense through, he’s a supplemental piece.
I don’t have a top 40 or top 100 list.
I will tell you I absolutely believe he will be a very good player for M. He looks like a very talented kid to me, with a great motor. I love his addition to the team.
Off topic a bit, but his spin move is very good. Tight and quick. He will be able to use that move from day one.
Appreciate the different opinions expressed here. I’m wondering MattD, would you rather have landed Towns in '16 over Wagner? As players they’re very different, but would likely have competed for the same spot in JBs system.
Appreciate the different opinions expressed here. I'm wondering MattD, would you rather have landed Towns in '16 over Wagner? As players they're very different, but would likely have competed for the same spot in JBs system.
From a stylistic standpoint, I like Wagner more because of the motor/competitiveness and just a bit of nastiness. On the other hand, I think Towns is FAR more skilled. I think this team needs ball handling bad, but I also think we need players that generate shots at the rim. Ideally you want a player that does both…hell, I can’t really choose who I prefer. What do you guys think?