WindsorBlue, I think it’s a little early to say “the team will be in trouble.” As we sit here today, we don’t know what Duncan Robinson can or can’t give us, and we don’t know what guys like Chatman, Dawkins and MAAR will do this year. We also don’t know if Zak Irvin will continue to improve his game off-the-dribble to the point where we can play him at the two guard by 2016. It may seem less than a 50% likelihood, but again, we don’t know.
As far as Murray, I think we would need to move Caris to the three and let Murray play the two. And that would be fine, but I really question whether he’s a fit. It sounds like he’s a shoot first, shoot second, pass third type of guy.
We may not need a top flight PG until 2017, as Walton is a four year guy and MAAR can probably give us 5-10 backup minutes at the position if needed. But there’s no question we’ll need one in 2017, and it would be ideal to lock up a Winston or Goodin in 2016.
MattD, as far as Jefferson, I believe grades are going to be a major issue with him. I do like Daniels. I also think we’re looking hard at Hughes and Heurter. I think it’s a little early to say we’ll strike out on either Battle (visiting in one week) or Langford. Murray, I’d agree, neither party seems super interested right now.
The problem as I see it is that the inevitable departures of LeVert and Spike mean that they will pick up SOMEBODY to fill those spots in 2016. If those somebodies are not big-time impact players the roster will be pretty thin talent-wise, even if Walton and Irvin stick around, and the ensuing results may deter future recruits in '17 and '18.
Agreed that 2016 is a huge recruiting class for us. I think that Caris's return gave us a bit of a reprieve on our misses for the 2015 class.
As someone who had been on the “2016 or Bust” Express for a long time, I’m now on the train that says 2017 is actually the do or die year UNLESS Irvin and/or Walton goes pro after next year, as a result of Dawkins and MAAR proving potentially much more valuable than expected. If we get unexpected attrition, then yeah, still 2016.
I guess we will have to see how well everyone develops over this offseason and through next season. If Irvin and Walton come back and we don’t add any instant impact recruits for 2016, I think we will be a solid team (tournament team, probably 5-8 seed). But if we want to be in the discussion for championships, I think we will need to add one or two players that can step right in and make meaningful contributions.
Harry and Voltron, I agree. I am quite sure there is more to this story than we know, or may ever know. I'll reserve comment on whether I would have hoped we'd get Williams if Jaylen decided against us, but I will say this, if Jaylen doesn't decide for the "good guys", and I actually mean that literally, we will have another scholarship available for 2016. I know, some will say we won't get anyone of Williams caliber, but I just disagree with that. IF we don't get Brown, I would love it if Max could come back, and then we'd still have that scholarship available in 2016. AND, I think Max could still help us enormously next year. Of course, I really want Brown!
Problem with this line if thinking is that ‘we can wait until next year’ will be in its third year. Only so long you can postpone talent infusion before it catches up to you. 16 is make or break if no Brown
Nah…2016 would be important regardless. Doubt Brown would stick around that long anyhow. To me, his importance is as much about perception as anything else. Other recruits need to see that a guy his caliber is willing to come here. That even though we may not have all of the glitz and glamour, the fancy basketball dormitory, we still have excellent facilities, superior coaching and a high level of integrity, among other things.
See in order to understand recruiting you have to look through the lens of a 15-18 year old upper tier recruit. As adults, we don’t value glitz, glamour, coolness, swag, visibility…problem is that kids of that age very much value those things. We value integrity, development, etc…but do most kids think to themselves ‘gee, I wonder if Coach X has enough integrity’ when making a decision? Those kids are thinking about getting to the NBA and getting paid in the most expedited manner while having the most visibility and exposure. They don’t anticipate needing 2-3 years to develop in order to get to the NBA. If that is the mindset (which I fully believe it is for most upper tier kids), it’s pretty easy to see why we have issues landing kids at times.
2015 will be the first year that I can remember in which youth will be not be an applicable excuse. 2016 will be a flat-out veteran team. Will Wisconsin-like results ensue? Should be interesting.
I can’t remember how to embed on mobile but Teddy Blanks tweeted:
~Talked with Brown’s HS coach, am told UK has “beraded” him this past week. UM has been more passive in their approach.~
See in order to understand recruiting you have to look through the lens of a 15-18 year old upper tier recruit. As adults, we don't value glitz, glamour, coolness, swag, visibility..............problem is that kids of that age very much value those things. We value integrity, development, etc...........but do most kids think to themselves 'gee, I wonder if Coach X has enough integrity' when making a decision?
They do if they’re smart and/or raised right.
Those kids are thinking about getting to the NBA and getting paid in the most expedited manner while having the most visibility and exposure. They don't anticipate needing 2-3 years to develop in order to get to the NBA. If that is the mindset (which I fully believe it is for most upper tier kids), it's pretty easy to see why we have issues landing kids at times.
Key word being “most”. McGary was definitely a different kind of cat. Brown strikes me the same way. Not saying he is coming to Michigan, but he seems like the type that “could”.
Matt, I think you really overstate this stuff at times. What kid watching our 2013 team, or even our 2014 team, didn’t think we were fun to watch? Trey Burke was the national player of the year. Guys like Hardaway, McGary, Stauskas, Robinson and Levert were all very talented and interesting players. A guy like Spike having a crazy half in the title game against Louisville was a compelling and interesting story.
I agree, we probably won’t appeal to kids who are surefire one-and-done players and don’t like to hear they will be expected to go to class, they will have to learn the offense and it’s not a piece of cake, and they will be expected to be good teammates. While we may not appeal to some of these kids, I do find it encouraging that two former NBA stars (Glenn Robinson and Tim Hardaway) - who no doubt understand much of this surface appeal stuff is nonsense - trusted our staff enough to send their kids here.
See in order to understand recruiting you have to look through the lens of a 15-18 year old upper tier recruit. As adults, we don't value glitz, glamour, coolness, swag, visibility..............problem is that kids of that age very much value those things. We value integrity, development, etc...........but do most kids think to themselves 'gee, I wonder if Coach X has enough integrity' when making a decision?
They do if they’re smart and/or raised right.
Those kids are thinking about getting to the NBA and getting paid in the most expedited manner while having the most visibility and exposure. They don't anticipate needing 2-3 years to develop in order to get to the NBA. If that is the mindset (which I fully believe it is for most upper tier kids), it's pretty easy to see why we have issues landing kids at times.
Key word being “most”. McGary was definitely a different kind of cat. Brown strikes me the same way. Not saying he is coming to Michigan, but he seems like the type that “could”.
If they are smart according to your subjective standard. Smart to me falls in line with securing millions of dollars in the quickest possible manner. I don’t think many can fault a kid, or an adult for that matter, for taking that approach. As much as we’d like to think picking a college is about an education, developing, for upper tier kids it’s a business decision, and that’s just the way it is.
I do find it encouraging that two former NBA stars (Glenn Robinson and Tim Hardaway) - who no doubt understand much of this surface appeal stuff is nonsense - trusted our staff enough to send their kids here.
Matt, I think you really overstate this stuff at times. What kid watching our 2013 team, or even our 2014 team, didn't think we were fun to watch? Trey Burke was the national player of the year. Guys like Hardaway, McGary, Stauskas, Robinson and Levert were all very talented and interesting players. A guy like Spike having a crazy half in the title game against Louisville was a compelling and interesting story.
I agree, we probably won’t appeal to kids who are surefire one-and-done players and don’t like to hear they will be expected to go to class, they will have to learn the offense and it’s not a piece of cake, and they will be expected to be good teammates. While we may not appeal to some of these kids, I do find it encouraging that two former NBA stars (Glenn Robinson and Tim Hardaway) - who no doubt understand much of this surface appeal stuff is nonsense - trusted our staff enough to send their kids here.
C’mon man get real, they sent their kids here because the other offers they had were garbage…stop it already with narrative. Nothing to do with seeing beyond surface appeal. Those kids would’ve went to UK if they had the chance and we all know it.
I do find it encouraging that two former NBA stars (Glenn Robinson and Tim Hardaway) - who no doubt understand much of this surface appeal stuff is nonsense - trusted our staff enough to send their kids here.
Plus Dawkins, plus Dumars.
Same thing, no choice because the other offers were garbage. Most of the kids we get are kids where UM is clearly the best offer. When we offer kids that have better, or even similar offers, they go elsewhere for the most part. I know JB says he likes to undersell and over deliver, problem with that approach is that of your sales job isn’t good enough, your delivery isn’t as good because the base product you obtain simply lacks the tools to truly be great.
Harry, I’m not going to quote your comment but it’s the one in answer to my “coaches care” comment. Believe me Coach B and staff WILL be criticized if we don’t get Brown and, yes, they care, in my opinion, more than anyone. MattD, I agree that 2016 is a hugely important recruiting year. I think we need an exceptionally talented 6’6 wing and a terrific PG. I’m not sure, as great a shooter as he is, that Williams fits that bill. Plus IF Brown comes we’ll likely have that scholarship to give in 2016 and if not we’ll have…Brown.
I posted this site’s tweets earlier…think its safe to say its not credible at this point. All signs have pointed toward UM going with Nike when the Adidas contract is up.
People think Jaylen Brown is going to Michigan because of Adidas, but Michigan is currently in contract negotiations with Under Armour.
— The Big Blue Nation (@KentuckyFanClub) May 1, 2015
Did we not just agree to move past this 'swag' argument yesterday?
Dylan - no offense, but here’s my problem with your enforcement in a nutshell…you get worked up about the ‘swag’ debate but have nothing to say about the countless remarks about UK paying, cheating, doing underhanded things, etc. Obviously your site, but I think you would have to agree that it seems pretty suspect that one is unofficially off limits based on your comment, while the other is almost condoned…
@MattD, you might have missed the below tweet/article. To be clear, it does NOT mean we are “negotiating” with Under Armour, but I find the timing to be really stupid because it only throws attention to the fact that we may well switch from adidas. Unless of course, it’s actually a calculated attempt to “remind” adidas that they should help us with Brown, but I doubt that. (also: warning: Freep link)