I said relatively low usage seeing as how it was 27% when the next best was 23% or something. That’s low usage for a player who is by far one of the most talented players in the summer league squad of a franchise that finished dead last.
And no, sorry, I was being abused way before that comment about usage was made. You just have to go up a couple pages to see that some of you were insulting me so confidently for simply bringing up a discussion topic. And if we’re being so dogmatic about making incorrect statements, some people had no idea that Cade had even played Summer League, claiming we’d never even seen him play in such a way.
Can we please not make light of abuse by using it to describe internet people disagreeing with you on a basketball hot take?
See, this is why people disagree with you. You’re fabricating things again. It was 30%, solidly the highest on the team, among the highest of all summer league players, and 13% higher than Killian Hayes, the guy you said was the “head honcho” getting more usage than Cunningham. Once again, if you say incorrect things you are going to get pushback regardless of whether or not people agree with your main point. It’s part of why this forum is great. People like facts.
Fwiw, Cade’s usage percentage is 2nd on the team behind Jerami Grant. He had the most shots last night going 2-14. The two he made came from actions where he was off the ball curling off a screen.
That being said, the offense didn’t look all that bad with everyone sharing the ball. Just couldn’t make shots.
I keep expecting everyone to break out of their slumps because the 3 point shot selection has been pretty good in the games I’ve watched. Just not going down.
I think “usage” is getting deployed here in a way that is somewhat tangential to @kherodan32 s initial point as I understood it. His initial fear was that Cade would be deployed off-ball while Hayes or others would play with it. I didn’t watch the game last night so I can’t say if that was happening but Cade’s usage is only partially related to that fear.
To maybe beat a dead horse here usage is a stat of who finishes possessions - by shot, TO, or assist. Cade led the team sin shot attempts I think, so his usage was high, but that’s not an indication he had the ball in his hands to initiate offense. When the team shoots this badly, potential assist die as no usage, and the guy initiating offense isn’t getting “usage” for that work.
Simply - usage (what many are saying) and being the primary offensive initiator (what @kherodan32 is saying) aren’t the same. Sure - guys like Doncic or Harden do both by being the teams PG and primary shooter, but we had a vivid example a few years ago at Michigan. Three years ago, Xavier Simpson was 4th on the team in usage behind, in order, Ignas Brazdeikis, Charles Mathews, and Jordan Poole. Which of these players was the primary offensive initiator? Hell, one of these guys left, according to his dad, because he DIDN’T get to play with the ball, because of Xavier’s dominance.
When a PG is as hesitant to shoot as Hayes, and the team shoots as badly as they did, it’s likely that Hayes could both be the main on-ball guy AND have a really low usage. The only way to know would be to watch the game (I didn’t, but I also don’t see anyone refuting the point with an physical observation).
It was also pointed out that Cade led the team in PNR possessions during Summer League.
He’s also playing in his 2nd (?) NBA game, I’m not sure I really follow all of the overreaction. Does playing off the ball for parts of your first few games in the NBA mean you won’t develop? Or that you’ll always play that role?
Just seems like people are yelling to yell in this thread.
Im not saying it’s not an over-reaction. I’m saying that saying “he had the highest usage” doesn’t refute the point. Again, I didn’t see the game, so I have no idea if “the fear” is what occurred.
It’s a bit of a mix. I don’t think you can say that usage rate doesn’t mean he has the ball in his hands because you need the ball to shoot it
Usage rate also doesn’t include assists as someone pointed out at some point along the way. That’s how you get a Zavier Simpson situation during his sophomore year where he dribbles it a lot but rarely shoots.
That being said, Cade’s WAY TOO EARLY play type stats show him in the kind of split I think you’d want to see… 6 spot up plays per game, 5 PNR/ISO plays per game, 1 off-ball screen play per game.
The larger point is that you can play on the ball even if you aren’t the ‘dribble up the floor’ PG (i.e. Stauskas/Walton in '14)
Yeah I mean broadly I think the goal for for first overall pick at guard is that he become the teams primary offensive ball handler, so working in that direction should be the general goal.
That said, as you point out, one can’t reach the conclusion it’s not happening based on 1-2 games.
It’s the internet after a loss where your #1 pick went 0-9 from 3 and is 0-14 in his two games played. Overreactions and yelling are gonna be the thing.
I pray for your sake Caleb Houstan’s numbers in the first two games are better, or the servers won’t be able to handle the heat in the posts.
There were a few dozen posts here last year around Thanksgiving about how Franz was doomed and hadn’t improved, IIRC.
I’m not at all invested in this debate, I just want to use this as a warning to keep things civil here and not make this thread a chore to moderate during the season as an off-topic thread. Feels like it has been for the most part, just want to stay on the rails.
I do think the anti-Casey stuff is a bit spicy - I don’t know he’s a championship level coach, but he did make 2 ECFs and got a 1 seed without an All-NBA player on the roster.
Yeah, I think Casey is fine. Toronto racked up a lot of regular season wins and then lost to Lebron in the playoffs. We’ll never know how he would have done with Kawhi and no Lebron in the East.
It’s hard to gauge how they are using Cade because he’s clearly working his way back into shape. It’s clear though that he’s a smart player on both offense and defense.
He was a mixed bag in pick and roll. He had a couple passes that were forced and ended up in turnovers. But he also had a nice behind the back pass to Jerami Grant popping out for a three that looked so effortless.
