Real good stuff
I still think Ausar + Stew + Duren can work with Cade (Ausar and Stew 3-5 from three combined tonight) but god yes they need a no brainer knockdown automatic shooter alongside them and for the love of god stop pretending killian hayes could be it
The Ivey thing stinks (but heās also not a knockdown shooter so Iād rather cut the cord with him than start him while he complains Cade has the ball and leaves his man open). My guess would be heās not long for Detroit, hopefully they can get real shooting in return if they move off him
Iād assume Bogey returns and Ausar is the 2 and thatās the group. Might work, might not, Ausar and Stew wonāt always make threes but weāll see.
But priority 1, 2, 3 and 4 was find out if Cade is The Guy. He is The Guy. Now we find out if the rest belong next to him or not, hopefully while scrapping our way to competitive games all season long against legit playoff teams.
https://x.com/nbadraftwass/status/1717362056767185220?s=46&t=25NEcR9UsaDZVnfWxknfFQ
It might look completely different around them in a year, but these two are the core.
2 Likes
Considering Ausar probably moves ahead of Ivey in the core rankings, Ivey is pretty expendable.
2 Likes
Ivey was awful, but I think you have to start him. Heās not a lead guard and you waste Harris, Burks and Sasserās shooting off the bench because he canāt set them up. Better off having Killian do that until Monte Morris comes back.
(Alternatively: Maybe they want Monte Morris to start so they are just starting Killian to keep Ivey in his role of the bench. Juwan-style.)
I know it was kind of a thing at the time and Detroit never even ended up having the chance to make the pickā¦
But if Keegan Murray falls to 5 and the Kings take Ivey instead, DETās core is absolutely perfect right now
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Buckets aside, I thought the Boardās 2 favorite players were Ivey and Shannon.
I am not writing off Ivey this fast. He was good down the stretch and has yet to play with Cade really. If I had to come off the bench and watch Killian I would be pouting too. Now he needs to step up and play so well the coach has no choice but to start him.
I like Duren and Stew is fine. They showed some moxie to come back from that huge leadā¦and continue the decades old narrative that you only need to watch the last five minutes of every NBA game.
2 Likes
I donāt get the Stewart obsession from the org. Even if the 3 point shot comes through, he doesnāt have any other perimeter skills to be a true threat at the 4, and he doesnāt have the catch radius to be a 5. He will just always be an offensive anchor.
I think people have a narrow view of how an offensive player can be effective. Stewart had 6 offensive boards. He shot the 3 well. And punished mismatches in the post. And had 2 assists. Heās not going to be one of your top 3 options but I donāt think heāll be an anchor.
And then you look at the versatility he gives you on defense. He guarded Butler, Bam, Duncan Robinson and Kevin Love this game. Outside of Love hitting some shots when he was forced to help and one foul on Butler, I canāt remember anyone scoring on him. Usually they would drive, heād wall them off and then theyād pass.
Heās a solid role player.
10 Likes
Yeah I really liked Stew this game. Thatās about as productive as Iād hope for from the 4th/5th option any given game.
And it sounds lame to say out loud but heās so critical to the chemistry/defense/culture, etc. after Ivey tunnel vision drove through four guys and fired it out of bounds for the 4th time in the first half, Stew was right there putting his arm around him trying to lift. Then a minute later when Ivey left his man to double and gave up a wide open shot that missed and went out of bounds, Stew was on his a$$.
I wish he was more perimeter oriented but heās worked so hard to get to a point where you have to respect the shot. I do really think him and Duren can work, it just means we need very specific things from the non-Cade guards that we donāt currently have
4 Likes
First off, I donāt think Stewart and Ausar going 3/5 is good, because you need like 12 shots from that group, not 5, and if they take 12 itās probably going to look terrible.
Iām honestly gobsmacked that after 1 game this year and all of last yearās results anyone is willing to write off Ivey.
Starting Killian Hayes EVER is a non-starter, but doing so next to Ausar and Stewart is certifiably insane, and if they didnāt get a (predictably horrible) game from him in a large volume of minutes, and didnāt eat a sub - 0.9 ppp in his minutes offensively, they win this game. You think Ivey sucks or have some sort of grudge for him like Monty seems to? Fine, start Alec Burks! Start Marcus Sasser - he made shots!
And this goes back to my complaint with this team since Troy Weaver took charge - they are almost willfully, gleefully ignorant of what post-2005 basketball looks like. Any idiot (like me!) could have told you that inserting Hayes next to Thompson and Stewart was a MAJOR no go, even if Hayes was positively impacting defense (which he didnāt - they played better without him), he is such a hamstring to their offense, itās prohibitive.
Cade was awesome! Hope he keeps it up.
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Unless hayes is the next Gary Payton on defense you cannot start him with the other four guys.
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Iām not writing Ivey off! I just have zero issue watching how Ivey carried himself last night and saying āyeah he can come off the benchā
If this was fantasy basketball it would be indefensible but itās an actual game! You donāt reward guys who donāt guard, donāt make the extra pass and only care about their own offense to the detriment of the team.
When Ivey was great last year, the entire org was actively trying to lose games. Everyoneās best interest was Ivey being ball-dominant recording 22/5/5 every night and leaving his guy defensively.
Thatās no longer the best interest. I really hope he builds himself up to where heās clearly the starting SG on this team. But there was absolutely nothing he did last night that warrants more minutes - he was actively hurting the team every possession
6 Likes
A podcast called The Pindown? What kinda name is that?
https://x.com/therealwesd3/status/1717531295738192238?s=20
Occamās razor would be that Ivey isnāt playing up to the standard that the staff desires, most likely on defense by his career track record, at least at Purdue. So, not starting him would clearly to be sending some sort of message.
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What about rewarding, over and over again, guys that cripple the offense
Thatās fine
To be clear
My problem is not ānot starting Iveyā. It is starting:
Killian Hayes - .452 career TS, 27.1% career three point %
Isaiah Stewart - 33.1% career three point % on 2.4 attempts per 36
Ausar Thompson - no track record in the NBA clearly, not seen today as a viable three point shooter
along with your non-shooting center (fine - centers arenāt asked to shoot)
In an NBA game 2023.
If Ivey is dogging it or something, Iām in no position to judge that, but you have Alec Burks who has shot over 40% from three over his past 1100 attempts sitting right there as an alternative (not an exagerration - this is the number).
Why are messages always sent about defense and never offense?
4 Likes
I donāt want Killian starting either. Thatās very insane.
Wish they would start whoever they think the best shooter is, probably Burks but Harris/Sasser/Bogey when he gets back (I think thatās the plan) would all be fine
Looking backā¦ I donāt get why we traded Saddiq Bey. Heās at least a threat at the one thing we desperately need