You absolutely cannot find a rotation caliber wing at any time. Wesley Matthews is employed by title contenders annually. Danny Green still has a ton of value and he may not have an ounce of cartilage left below his waist.
Those are 3 and D players. 3 and D players have a ton of value. Bey is not that. If Bey could defend, heād be a great piece, but heās not even an average defender. He is very bad
1 Like
Iād argue that Beyās mediocre shooting % is as much a product of him being the second best offensive player (lol) on the team since heās been there.
How much are you willing to pay for a 34% and no D wing? Heās going to get a lot of money. And if heās not someone you want to pay a lot of money, what is anybody getting worked up about?
Iād argue that his mediocre shooting % is because heās a mediocre shooter and takes a lot of bad shots instead of passing the ball.
1 Like
Obviously, to each their own, but most team coverage I read of the Pistons says heās a pretty solid defender?
@Dizzo are there good shots available to the Pistons? That seems to be a pretty fundamental flaw in the past 3 years.
Regardless - there is no way I am going to agree Bey for Wiseman is a trade of equal commodities in the eyes of the NBA. Wiseman is unplayable at the least valuable and most easily filled position.
1 Like
Heās fine if he is defending a bigger 4 because heās strong and can hold his own inside, but he canāt guard wings on the perimeter. He isnāt quick enough and doesnāt move his feet well. So if you want him as a small 4, itās ok. If you want him as a true wing, itās a problem.
2 Likes
There are definitely not very many good shots available. Iāll also agree itās not a trade of equal commodities. Bey was a starter for long stretches and has had great games. Wiseman has done nothing. Atlanta is getting a guy who will play for them. Golden State ended up with a guy who will play for them (Payton). Detroit got a guy who is very likely a bust.
Clearly Bey didnāt have much value around the league though if this is the best deal they could get.
While I donāt love acquiring Wiseman based on the current roster composition, you are so quick to write off young players.
For me I just donāt care. He is on a rookie deal and if heās not good, he will come off the books next year and pistons can just use his money on someone else. If he taps into any of that potential, then you have something. But it all comes back to me not believing Bey is in the long term plan so if he would be gone after next year, it just doesnāt really matter. Pistons arenāt winning next year with him. And after that, heās gone. So why complain just to complain? The trade literally changes nothing about the trajectory of the rebuild in a positive or negative way.
2 Likes
Iāll bow out of the conversation, as I think itās clear where I stand, but Iām obviously not ācomplaining to complainā, but complaining because I think they traded something of greater value for lesser. Itās totally fine to disagree with that. If I shared your view, perhaps I would be complaining to complain, but I think we can agree I donāt, right?
1 Like
I remember it as Rip for Tyson Chandler. Which would have kept them competitive. Think it got nixed in all the turmoil over selling the team.
PG: Billups
SG: Stuckey
SF: Prince
PF: Sheed
C: Chandler
Mostly agree with you here (Wiseman sucks, Bey isnāt that great but he has some value as indicated by being traded for 5 seconds), but two key points.
Kind of? But a key thing that the org has been putting out into the media for a while is that they wanted Saddiq to be more passive and āfit-inā more. Ever since his second year, he has viewed himself as the second best offensive player and that he should be doing a lot of creation and theyāve been trying to unsuccessfully get him to commit to a more 3&D role. They leaked that out through the media again after the trade. So itās a little more than āhe is not effecient because of his team.ā
No heās very bad. Any advanced metrics you look for back that up too (one of the worst in the league). Was hyped up as a 3 and D possibility as a rookie, but heās never really gotten there.
I wasnāt clear. To me it wasnāt Bey that has value. He might, but in this environment he wasnāt going to fetch a first-rounder. No way. But Bobby Marks tweeted yesterday that somehow this deal helps GSW save $74m in luxury tax. Thatās the real value the Pistons provided to GSW.
Iām not there and I donāt know, and you canāt evaluate a GM based on what he reportedly turned down, because you just donāt know if the facts are what they seem to be. But itās hard to understand how Weaver values trades. Seemed like he was asking for the moon for Bogdanovich whereas in this trade he took back very little in return for the value he provided.
1 Like
I still think Wisemam has a future and will be fine long term but I just donāt understand the fit. You got Stewart and Duren up front already and your wings are thin.
I guess if Bey isnāt good or a fit ( donāt watch enough Pistons to comment) youād still think theyād trade him for anything but another young big.
I do think Wisemanās skill set if developed properly could fit with Stewart and Duren, at least offensively where they could all be paired together and be interchangeable but idk.
Seems weird.
1 Like
Fantastic stealth tank move to acquire Wiseman. I applaud it.
2 Likes
Yeah, I guess Iām not a scout, so I wonāt scream about my opinion on Bey. But he was immediately flipped for Gary Payton Jr., who was a good enough player to get 18 mpg in the NBA finals 8 months ago.
1 Like
I think Bey is in that weird spot where he most certainly has some value, and plays the position where you can never have enough. But, also, you know youāre not getting a first round pick in this market. And you donāt want to pay him before knowing a lot more. So the timing of it tamps down the value somewhat. I think heāll have a good long career, but I donāt know that heāll be a truly good player or a fit with our guys.
3 Likes
I guess my quick 2 cents. Regardless of what you think about Bey short or long term, this particular deal is a head scratcher in terms of overall roster construction. I thought getting Duren was one of the steals of the draft. If this slows his development or gives him pause about staying here, I think the Pistons are going to regret it.
1 Like
Since they used that Bucks pick to get Jalen Duren (plus Burks and Noel), I feel pretty great about it.
Itās so weird, because he seemed to be a 3 and D guy in his rookie year. I thought he could be a valuable bench-piece on a contending team. Sort of like Corliss Williamson was for his stretch here. But, thereās talk of him not meshing with the teamās plans for him, and, if that was the case, then Iām fine with trading him. Iām not very excited about the return. Sam Webb was asking why not just trade him to Atlanta for those 5 2nd round picks that the Hawks gave to the Warriors for him. Thatās a good question, but I guess Troy has been enamored with Wiseman for a while.
And, Iāve said with the draft in mind that we should draft talent over fit. So, this is kind of the same thing, just with a little more info.
I donāt expect a great result, but I donāt think this is a franchise-killer by any stretch. Just so long as you prioritize Duren over Wiseman.
3 Likes