Cleveland Cavaliers hire John Beilein

I am (thank god) not in a position where I need to behave as a politician; and some things should be left to the philosophers and their various theories of meaning.

There is nothing simple about sorting out meaning and that is ok. The messiness is how we get to know each other. Denying the messiness is how we stay divided.

I used to view it as you do but some people let me know how they experienced the word.

If I call my team here at work, who report to me, “thugs”, “slugs” or anything else insulting, I’m being a dick, unnecessarily

We can think Beilein is a good man and that he did a bad thing.

Doing this is worse in an environment filled with people with whom you’ve evidently failed to build rapport who have already planted media stories behind your back.

The fact that Woj has this almost certainly means it was leaked by an agent - which is bad organizationally.

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Didn’t expect to be discussing linguistics today, but here ya go.

MCWHORTER: Well, the word originates in India as a word for roughly that. And because the British ran India for a good long time, the word jumped the rails from Indian languages to English, and that’s the reason that we in America have used the word for a very long time. And until rather recently, it did mean what you might call a ruffian, but of course, things have changed.

BLOCK: Well, how have they changed?

MCWHORTER: Well, the truth is that thug today is a nominally polite way of using the N-word. Many people suspect it, and they are correct. When somebody talks about thugs ruining a place, it is almost impossible today that they are referring to somebody with blond hair. It is a sly way of saying there go those black people ruining things again. And so anybody who wonders whether thug is becoming the new N-word doesn’t need to. It’s most certainly is.

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I live in the south. My experience is that people use the word thug as a not so thinly veiled code word to replace the n-word.

I can’t imagine Beilein intending to use the word in that way. I believe he either meant “slug” to describe Kevin Love walking around the court like a petulant child or he just didn’t think about or intend the coded use of the word.

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Not a good look for Beilein, but I honestly don’t believe the guy we grew to know for over a decade here had any intent to offend or be hurtful with his choice of words. It was just an unfortunate mistake.

Also, Dan Gilbert is as cheap as it gets. He’s not going to fire Beilein unless he has to and pay two coaches during a rebuild. They only let Larry Drew go because his contract was expired and they weren’t on the hook to pay him anymore. They’ll dump Love and Thompson and let Beilein be the developer they hoped he would be.

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The necessary messiness of “establishing” meaning is the very thing that never changes and never will.

What a mess. Beilein deserves better, and I can sure imagine him having that slip of the tongue, but I can also imagine that his career won’t be defined by this.

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I believe JB is a great coach and a great man who has made a series of strange decisions/mistakes in the last calendar year that will dramatically alter the perception of the twilight of his career.

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FWIW after that infamous Cincinnati-Xavier brawl ended the game early, one of the players involved (who was allowed in the presser because???) implied that “thug” is a ‘worse’ (in terms of level of derogatory) thing to say than even something like gangstas.

We got a whole bunch of gangsters in our locker room. Not thugs, but tough guys on the court. We went out there and zipped em up at the end of the game. That’s our motto — zip ‘em up,” Holloway explained.

Two things: that might be one of the funniest pressers I’ve seen and if arguing over the racial connotations of the word “thug” isn’t peak umhoops.com then I don’t know what is :slight_smile:

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Huh? Everything is up for debate!

I’m going to debate you about whether everything is up for debate or not.

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That the word has racial connotations is a fact.

That some people didn’t know or understand that fact is also be true, I suppose.

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The debatability is debatable.

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Oof, I don’t buy the “slugs” excuse and think it makes it way worse. More importantly, no way the players buy it.

How don’t you buy it? The word “thug” makes almost no sense given the context. “Slug” 100% does given that they were playing, ya know, sluggish for the past several games. You think Beilein is the type of person to flat out lie about this?

I think it’s pretty interesting that completely neutral places like Reddit are 95% like “yeah, it’s pretty clear he meant slugs.” That’s not to say the players aren’t gonna be mad because they probably don’t know Beilein’s 40 year career of being a great guy with no controversy, but I feel like some people here just have this weird vendetta and want to paint Beilein in a bad light because he left.

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I have zero vendetta against Belein and was very happy for him when left. And calling someone a “thug” for playing lazy 100% makes sense (it’s wrong, but it’s logical).

No, it really doesn’t.

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No. It is a fact that what you are saying is not true. Words themselves do not have specific connotations attached to them.

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