Once Jamals recruitment is over I’ll be at liberty to speak more candidly, but I’m going to respect the privacy of the family. What I can say is that generally speaking, what you perceive to be meaningful, or factors that should matter, is probably the furthest from the reality of most of recruitments that I’ve covered. I really don’t mean that in a bad way either, just trying to give you some context.
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Exactly and considering how Michigan hasn’t been the best at keeping recruits in the state this style still may not be the most successful. It worked well for Cain because he’s a recruit from the state of Michigan. For example if Beilein really wanted a recruit from Australia 20 other schools want him as well and 12 of those schools offer him a scholarship when allowed. Is Beilein not going to offer him a scholarship until he comes down for a visit? Why visit Michigan with no offer when 12 other schools already offered you. It obviously works in the situation of Cain but not always feasible with others.
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As MattD noted above, it seems some other people are bent on taking Cain’s comments out of context (or extrapolating them much too far) to support their own hard-set views and agendas.
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I told you guys he was impressive last weekend - Donnie Tillman just told me Duke has entered the mix for him
I haven’t seen anybody trying to discredit Beilein in regards to Cain, this stuff is just bizarre and people coming up with stuff from outer space.
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Ah that sucks for us. Really really like his game.
How do you figure? Coffee is for closers. Cain hasn’t committed yet.
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I don’t see anyone taking Cain’s comments out of context. Perhaps Cain’s comments belie his true feelings, but nothing in his comments indicate that he was anything but thoroughly impressed.
Your logic never ceases to amaze. Michigan has not been the best at keeping prospects in state, so the style might not be successful. It worked well for Cain, because he’s from Michigan. Do you read what you write or is it just stream of consciousness?
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In my experience (and by that I mean the experience of a number of DI coaches (head and assistant) who I know well), each of you is correct depending upon the kid and family. Matt is right (with a few exceptions) when it comes to top 25ish kids who often believe (or at least have family members, AAU coaches or advisors who believe) that the NBA is a year or two years away at most/ Those kids often don’t care about the academic tour (or the academics), they don’t worry about film clips showing how they’ll be used (they’ll dominate the ball), and they want to be “shown the love” by everyone, including repeatedly by head coaches, as early and as often as possible. Some of these top 25ish kids or their “people” (at least half, likely more) also want “other things.” Beyond top 60 or so, things change–there are still kids (or associates) who value the things of which Matt speaks (early and frequent love and offers), but others who are, as LA posits, willing to be patient and look at everything involved. Between 25 and 60, more towards Matt’s experience, but less than at the top 25ish level.
JB has strengths and weaknesses. He’s not Jim Harbaugh, nor could he ever be–if JB called a kid and told him he was going to spend the night on his floor, the kid would be more likely to call the cops than he would be to commit to Michigan. He’s going to miss on some kids by doing it his way, and I’ll be the first to say that recruiting, over the last three years (classes of '14-'16), has been less than expected and that we need better recruiting. At the same time, though, doing it his way has lead to incredibly cohesive, unselfish, coachable teams singularly free of the off court issues which have plagued others. Obviously, you need talent, but if anyone wonders how the '12 team–one which started 3 guys (Morgan, Novak and Douglass) who nobody wanted, and 2 guys (Hardaway and Burke) who weren’t offered by their own hometown and/or home state schools where they would surely have gone–having a team which works together as a team helps A LOT.
To me, JB would be best served focusing more on kids in the 60-100/150 range–those are kids with whom his approach is most likely to work, he’s been extremely good (with a few misses) at figuring out who will blow up from that pool, and they’re kids who fit with what he wants to do. He’s gotten away from that some in the past few years, and it hasn’t worked well–he has finished second a lot. As Johnny Orr once said (much, much more “colorfully” than I’ll quote here), “Finishing second on a kid doesn’t get you a single point on the scoreboard.” If we finish first with kids like Simpson (who was just below 60 when he committed), Poole, Cain, etc., we’ll be very, very good.
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If we are showing interest in a kid and invite him for a visit, why wouldn’t he want to come? Why would he be upset with us wanting a visit? And if he isn’t interested in coming for a visit, after we have shown legitimate interest, why would UM offer him?
I think Beilein’s method is a great way to find out which players are giving us serious consideration and which ones are just interested in seeing how many offers they can pile up.
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Very cool hope we land him. Sucks to hear about Donnie Tillman I really like his game. Only thing I’m scared about is it seems like Jackson is a long shot, Cain we have a decent shot with and young who knows. If for some reason we strike out on Cain and young, where are we at? I’d like to have significantly more targets and back up plans soon just in case we strike out.
I know we have no link to him but I think hamier wright is an ideal four for us to target in place of young. I’ve said that before. I’d also like to offer Donnie Tillman. Just would be nice to see we were on some more guys soon.
I see what you’re saying and in some senses I agree.
But on the flip side, I can also see, even reading the interview, how it can come across as though Michigan has the high ground. Almost as though we’re saying “well well, you finally made it, here’s your prestigious Michigan offer.” Like we’re doing them a favor.
When on the flip side, maybe you have a coach who’s on you hot. Throws that flapjack offer right at you (along with 20 other guys) but it can be read as though “I want you right away.”
At the end of the day, I think it’s all how you present the entirety and show interest in the recruits.
So maybe we wait until they’re on campus for the full academic tour. But who are we inviting for that? And how often? Are we on these guys right away, letting them know that they’re wanted, and we REALLY want them to check us out?
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Hopefully some new targets start to emerge now, seems like there is more 18 names out there right now.
My hope is with the 4 ship we go after someone whose number one skill is getting to the rim, still feel like that factor will be missing. Ideally it’s a 6-5 wing but wouldn’t be against them taking a swing at Markell Johnson. Tough sell with Xavier already here but still worth a look. Kid is explosive.
I didn’t post it here because its not UM related, but Markell Johnson was absolutely unstoppable at EYBL Indy. Now that kid is underrated. He is the definition of explosive, and he has excellent ballhandling and court vision as well. I was able to put together a highlight clip of him on my sight, and it was impressive considering it was taken from roughly one half of a game. I was there to see Kyle Young, but the real show was Markell Johnson.
The factors I assume would matter, as I’ve always said, are a potential player’s fit within the type of system we run, our staff’s ability to prepare kids for the next level, academics, and of course the relationship with the coaching staff is very important.
When it comes to kids in the 50-150 range, I’d be quite surprised if those factors aren’t pretty important. But if you have information to the contrary, sure, let’s hear it (at the right time).
Among the majority of five star kids who have been treated like royalty since they were 10, I’d imagine other things are more important, and we don’t satisfy those criteria very well. And I’m perfectly fine with that.
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I don’t know, we’ve somehow seemed to land guys like Morris, Burke, Brundidge, Smotrycz, Stauskas, Robinson, McGary, Irvin, Walton, Chatman, Donnal, Simpson, and Teske (all of whom were highly regarded recruits, even if some didn’t pan out) with that approach.
I see, so the only way a coach can make a good recruiting presentation is if the kid ultimately commits?
If you do the numbers–marquee programs that pull one-and-done kids, number of spots they have to fill–I’m pretty sure that if we’re saying that we’re the next tier in, or vying with second tier schools for those kids, then you’re back in the 30s, 40s as far as rankings anyway, right? To me this makes it even crazier that we’ve got fans beating up on Beilein for not pulling the top 20 kids. The fact that we have vied for those kids suggests Beilein has appeal. And while he is obviously combing through top-100 and up-and-coming candidates, making remarkable discoveries, I don’t think he should give up on the top-flight players, especially when those kids are academically inclined. Things may or may not work out–Jaylen Brown pulled the trigger, in the end, and chose Cal; doesn’t make us idiots. But if Beilein manages to put together another serious few years of runs at the Sweet 16 and Great 8, I still think that breakthrough could be coming.
If not, I personally admire how he went about it.
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