Agree on motor–if you don’t have it from the get-go, it’s hard to turn that light switch on, and it really matters. Not that it can substitute for athleticism or ability, but there’s a reason why a guy like Novak played far above his ranking and a guy like D.J. Wilson has, thus far, played below his (here were motor questions in high school, and they haven’t, to date, been answered).
I think it’s harder to acquire skill than it seems. Yeah, you can improve, but seldom do you see bad ballhandlers or shooters turn into really good ones–average is about as good as it usually gets. You can also improve athleticism, at least to some extent–hat’s what college strength and conditioning programs are all about–but again, you don’t generally see minus athletes become plus ones. What you can see is guys improve floor vision and recognition and become good passers–Irvin is a good example of that.
As to defense, athleticism certainly helps. It’s not dispositive–Wisconsin is never terribly athletic, and the Badgers are usually good defensively, while there are teams filled with plus athletes which are horrific defensively (see Indiana, 2014-15)–but it helps.
MHoops1 - THIS is why recruiting is SO important. Yeah, a prospect can improve skill and athleticism to a certain extent. But for the most part, you are what you are. Development and S & C can only do so much.
I’m actually confused on why we’re not going after Donnie Tillman. If I recall belein went to see him at. Findlay,right? I think we should cast a wider net here and he should be for sure in it. I’dlike to offer Tillman, livers, Cain,Wilkes, Bowen and Scruggs in addition to who we offered already just to name a few.
Are there any other developing targets you guys know about? I feel like we have a lot of focus just on two kids really. Seems like there should be. More guys involved.
We have offers out to Jaren Jackson, Young, Cain . We’re also prioritizing Bowen, Malik Williams, and Kris Wilkes. As has been discussed ad nauseum here, a lack of a Michigan “offer” doesn’t mean there not showing significant interest. And they’ve got to continue to recruit Poole. Then you’ve got Mullins, who was in town for a couple of days, and 2018 (and beyond) recruiting. Plus they’re down two assistants. Sure, it’d be nice to know now who we’re going to get and what JB thinks of certain guys, but there are more than 2 guys involved, even just with respect to 2017 recruits.
I agree. There are some caveats. Recruiting can involve figuring out which guys are “criminally underrated,” which are late bloomers, which matured early and will struggle when others catch up, which have motor, lack selfishness, take to coaching, etc., just as it can involve closing the deal on guys everyone wants. It can also involve putting a team together, and figuring out who fits what you want to do. In general, though, getting really good players is a must. You can give my 87 year old legally blind mother the '96 Bulls, and give Phil Jackson the worst team in the league that year, and my mother’s team kicks Phil’s team’s ass. Coaching is very important, but it’s on the margins–you can’t turn horsemeat into prime steak. You can, however, turn good ingredients into a really good meal with the right seasonings, ingredient and flavor combinations, etc.
Motor is an area I’d really like to see the coaching staff prioritize in recruiting. Quite frankly, we’ve recruited a bunch of Charmin boys in the past. That needs to change. In my opinion, guys with great motor will outperform any skill shortcomings. Energy is a skill in itself. Dillon Brooks is a great example of this.
Agree Sly. We should get guys like Williams, Wilkes, Tillman, Scruggs, Bowen, in for visits and make sure they get offers. While I love Cain’s game and see the merits of Young also, this is a remarkably short list of priority targets. Not only is the currently approach less ambitious than that of M’s peers, it may also be risky to put all your eggs in one basket.
I just listed six guys, and that’s not including guys at least on the radar like Gunn, Scruggs, and other players on the Family, and there are other guys who have been more prominently talked abut earlier like Greg Floyd or Christian David who maybe get more attention if other targets don’t work out.
April is when you find new prospects, May and June is when you try to get them on campus for a visit, July is when you follow them all month and find more, Aug-Nov is when you setup official visits and try to close the deal.
I’d expect to hear about several new targets over the next few weeks.
Ive been thinking the same thing. 1. Missing out on the top recruits that we offer hurts, but it at least opens the possibility of landing the studs that could make instant, important impacts. 2. I love the sound of our current priorities (Cain, Young, keeping Poole), but we’ve spent too many late summers scrambling just to fill out the roster after we miss out on the top priorities. Dylan makes it sound like there’s still plenty of time to hand out appropriately-timed offers, though.
I think a lot of coaches think you can coach up motor and effort and also improve ones effort by getting them in great shape. I think this is partially true but you are right also that there are certain players who just play hard non stop. There are also some people who are just low energy players/ individuals as a whole. Some people just want it more then others.
This is what I was thinking / hoping. We should start to hear about some new names I assume right? One person I forgot was Parker Stewart. Recruiting is one if my favorite things so I can’t wait ti hear some new names: see if anyone is showing interest in back
Knock down shooters generally aren’t overly athletic and can’t get that athletic (see Matt Vogrich). Athletes can become more skilled and become better shooters (see Kawhi Leonard). Shooters space out the floor on offense and the long athletic types shrink the floor on defense. It’s a fine line to what coaches are looking for on the recruiting trail. That’s why it’s not an exact science (same goes from NFL Draft w/QB’s).
One thing that I believe is overlooked in recruiting is love for the game. The kids that don’t get better are the ones that aren’t doing the necessary things to become great. Some people call it motor but I’m talking about working out on your own and really making an effort to change.
I’m not quite sure why he is still allowed to come on these forums and post nonsense constantly. Let me get this out here, Cain would fit well at Michigan. I do not see him being more than a finisher and corner 3 point shooter. He is not a guy who you give the ball to and say make a play. I have now watched 3 of Cain’s games, not once was he the ball handler in a pick n roll play. Good finisher, average rebounder, and good defender I will buy. I see a poor mans GR3 and a lot of improvement out of Cain at this point is a long shot. Not because it’s Cain, but any player improving a whole lot from a good high school player is rare. People that know basketball know good high school players becoming good college players or NBA players is rare. Trusting a guy who said Devin Booker is way overrated, Zak Irvin is way overrated, and Lebron James is a ball hog(could be more, that’s off memory), is not easy for me to do. I do believe Cain has potential to be a good/decent college basketball player, But for him to be a go to guy in the big ten is not what I see at all. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing, only time with tell how it all turns out. No one can be right or wrong at this point, it’s all projection.