John - don’t think its that either of use are wrong, we just weight certain attributes differently. Keep this in mind though, when I evaluate a prospect, I evaluate from a general standpoint, whereas I think some folks here evaluate prospects from a UM lens exclusively (rightly so). However, that lens can lead to a tainted evaluation. - I.E. if you can’t shoot or pass, then somehow you aren’t very good.
Based on your posts/comments, I’d say your pecking order is 1) shooting 2) passing 3) ballhandling 4) athleticism.
My pecking order is 1) ballhandling 2) athleticism 3) passing 4) shooting
This is why you think Irvin>Cain and I think the opposite. Will say this though, you seem to be coming around. You initially thought Cain=Watson, now you concede top 80.
With respect to struggling, a lot depends on what program he ends up at. For me personally, Cain would not be a very good fit for the 4 at UM. He would probably need a RS year to add strength - which is his biggest shortcoming IMO. If he ends up at the 3 anywhere, I think he has a VERY high ceiling - MUCH higher than Zak Irvin. So while guys like Irvin have high floors on good teams because they don’t have to handle the ball and can just stand in a corner and shoot, guys like that have inherent caps on development because most often the man across is bigger, faster, quicker, and stronger. With a year of S & C, Cain’s ceiling is NBA level in terms of raw athletic ability.
Based on HS film, I’d venture to say you probably thought Kyle Korver>Russell Westbrook. Guys like Korver and Zak are ‘system’ guys, whereas good athletes don’t generally need a system per se.
Couldn’t agree more, I think Jamal is the type of player that has a legit crack at the NBA at some point without the threat of being a 1 and done. His ceiling is VERY high, but would be the type of player to stick around long enough to help the team without putting JB in a mad scramble to find a replacement.
Just to provide some context, the EYBL has 40 teams. I’d say its pretty accurate to say that every starter from each individual EYBL team has D1 offer of some sort, the talent is really that good.
Jamal is currently ranked #59 is scoring for the EYBL thus far and #89 for rebounding. Those are pretty impressive numbers for an AAU circuit of that caliber. I think that translates to a top 80 ranking if continued.
Looking at that footage above, I see a lot of GR3’s finishing ability in Cain. We need an athletic finisher with a high motor. Give me a guy with Cain’s skill set any day over another “smooth”, slow-twitch player.
I think Cain and Tillman might compliment each other a little more in terms of positional flexibility on both ends of the court, but I really like Young.
Goal should be to get two of Cain, Young and Tillman IMO. I’d be pretty happy with however that would shake out.
Yeah, I think you do for sure. Fill out the 3-4 spots. Looking at a two-year class of
Simpson, Poole, Watson, Cain, Young, Davis, Teske. Seems like a pretty balanced group. If Donnal doesn’t get his fifth year I’d look at another guard that can distribute to fill things out though.
I think those are our major needs, although I prefer Tillman’s strength, hands, and above-the-rim play to Young’s.
That said, I am always in favor of taking the best guys you can get, so frankly I’d probably take a Malik Williams or a Bowen over Young even if it created redundancy in the roster.
I haven’t paid too much attention to 2017 PGs but I imagine we could use a backup. That said, I wouldn’t take a low-rated backup just for emergencies over any of the above.
Didn’t want to post it here because UM isn’t hot and heavy on Tillman, but there were times where Donnie played PG for the Oakland Soldiers. His handle at that size is extremely impressive. His combination of skill and athleticism will no doubt see him rise up the rankings.
Understand the excitement about him now. Something a little stiff there, still–needs yoga. Has a nice soft touch, though; to me that always suggests a player might still grow a long way.
Interesting because Young has been the much better finisher and shown more ability to step away and shoot than Tillman on the EYBL circuit. Young is actually finishing at a higher-clip than Cain around the basket, but only barely.
Donnie is an absolute monster on the glass. Just gives multiple efforts on the glass consistently. I did see him miss a few easy looks around the basket - he won’t say it and it’s not public, but Donnie is still hurt. I seen him limping off the court at the end of a game. He told me he’s not 100% but doesn’t want to give excuses
I guess I am unlike some M fans in that I don’t automatically prefer whichever player we are most likely to sign. I’ll cheer for whoever we do sign, however.
